1 00:00:09,410 --> 00:00:04,660 I 2 00:00:10,700 --> 00:00:09,420 office of communications welcome to the 3 00:00:12,110 --> 00:00:10,710 10th anniversary of the International 4 00:00:14,390 --> 00:00:12,120 Space Station discussion and NASA 5 00:00:16,580 --> 00:00:14,400 headquarters in Washington on November 6 00:00:17,990 --> 00:00:16,590 second 2000 the crew of expedition one 7 00:00:20,060 --> 00:00:18,000 became the first residence of the 8 00:00:22,460 --> 00:00:20,070 National Space Station since then over 9 00:00:25,010 --> 00:00:22,470 two hundred visitors have explored the 10 00:00:29,089 --> 00:00:25,020 International Space Station we've had 15 11 00:00:32,359 --> 00:00:29,099 countries contributed modules and 12 00:00:33,710 --> 00:00:32,369 hardware and 600 experiments have been 13 00:00:36,709 --> 00:00:33,720 conducted over 60 our experiment 14 00:00:38,660 --> 00:00:36,719 conducted on the complex on this Tuesday 15 00:00:40,459 --> 00:00:38,670 we're going to be celebrating 10 years 16 00:00:42,110 --> 00:00:40,469 of permanent human residency aboard the 17 00:00:44,090 --> 00:00:42,120 complex here today discuss that 18 00:00:49,130 --> 00:00:44,100 milestone is the associate minister for 19 00:00:50,630 --> 00:00:49,140 space operations bill Gerstenmaier the 20 00:00:52,549 --> 00:00:50,640 associate administrator for independent 21 00:00:53,509 --> 00:00:52,559 program and cost evaluation and the 22 00:00:58,639 --> 00:00:53,519 former deputy associate administrator 23 00:01:00,380 --> 00:00:58,649 for Space Station my cause deputy 24 00:01:04,910 --> 00:01:00,390 Associate Minister for space operations 25 00:01:06,380 --> 00:01:04,920 Lynn Klein and the associate assistant 26 00:01:09,289 --> 00:01:06,390 associate administrator for a National 27 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:09,299 Space Station marker and I'm going to 28 00:01:12,289 --> 00:01:10,770 start off by asking the panelist a few 29 00:01:14,749 --> 00:01:12,299 questions and we'll take questions from 30 00:01:16,219 --> 00:01:14,759 the audience later in the program this 31 00:01:17,929 --> 00:01:16,229 question is really for all of you but 32 00:01:19,550 --> 00:01:17,939 we'll start off with mark how did you 33 00:01:23,050 --> 00:01:19,560 first become involved with space station 34 00:01:26,090 --> 00:01:23,060 and how has your role since involved I 35 00:01:29,420 --> 00:01:26,100 see it was 1984 and i was involved in 36 00:01:31,940 --> 00:01:29,430 the renewable energy industry when OPEC 37 00:01:35,300 --> 00:01:31,950 lost its cartel power and I got an 38 00:01:36,980 --> 00:01:35,310 assignment to do a workshop research 39 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:36,990 requirements for the space station this 40 00:01:41,270 --> 00:01:38,490 was back in the very beginning of Phase 41 00:01:44,149 --> 00:01:41,280 I and I basically worked on those 42 00:01:46,190 --> 00:01:44,159 requirements for a decade and then as 43 00:01:47,870 --> 00:01:46,200 the program became operational and we 44 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:47,880 started actually implementing the 45 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:51,450 research I became involved in developing 46 00:01:55,130 --> 00:01:53,490 the uses of the station as a National 47 00:02:00,020 --> 00:01:55,140 Laboratory and that brings us up to 48 00:02:02,300 --> 00:02:00,030 today yeah well when we started the 49 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:02,310 space station program I was actually 50 00:02:06,319 --> 00:02:04,170 working on space and earth science 51 00:02:07,669 --> 00:02:06,329 activities but I was carpooling with 52 00:02:10,550 --> 00:02:07,679 somebody who is on the space station 53 00:02:12,890 --> 00:02:10,560 negotiating team so my initial role in 54 00:02:14,660 --> 00:02:12,900 space station was vicariously hearing on 55 00:02:15,670 --> 00:02:14,670 the way home all the stories on what was 56 00:02:18,699 --> 00:02:15,680 going on 57 00:02:21,610 --> 00:02:18,709 my own personal role began began when we 58 00:02:23,830 --> 00:02:21,620 invited Russia to join the program and 59 00:02:25,839 --> 00:02:23,840 the my first job on the International 60 00:02:27,940 --> 00:02:25,849 Space Station was to work with our 61 00:02:30,849 --> 00:02:27,950 original partners Canada Europe and 62 00:02:32,979 --> 00:02:30,859 Japan and negotiate the joint invitation 63 00:02:35,530 --> 00:02:32,989 to formally through diplomatic channels 64 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:35,540 invite Russia to join the program and 65 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:37,250 then I was asked to lead the 66 00:02:41,830 --> 00:02:39,290 negotiations to bring Russia into the 67 00:02:44,140 --> 00:02:41,840 program and it's changed over time 68 00:02:45,940 --> 00:02:44,150 because at that point I was always 69 00:02:47,679 --> 00:02:45,950 involved in the front end of programs 70 00:02:50,589 --> 00:02:47,689 just putting in place partnerships and 71 00:02:52,539 --> 00:02:50,599 now I find myself on the other end in a 72 00:02:54,399 --> 00:02:52,549 program office where we're responsible 73 00:02:57,099 --> 00:02:54,409 for implementing those things that we 74 00:03:00,580 --> 00:02:57,109 put into the agreements years ago okay 75 00:03:05,770 --> 00:03:00,590 great Mike I was at Johnson Space Center 76 00:03:07,780 --> 00:03:05,780 and in 1986 working within the mission 77 00:03:10,509 --> 00:03:07,790 ops Directorate gene Kranz decided that 78 00:03:12,789 --> 00:03:10,519 I needed to try something new and assign 79 00:03:14,789 --> 00:03:12,799 me to one of a group of space station 80 00:03:17,979 --> 00:03:14,799 sections that we set up an mo d and that 81 00:03:19,629 --> 00:03:17,989 got me started and then I spent all six 82 00:03:23,740 --> 00:03:19,639 years of their arrested and freedom 83 00:03:25,659 --> 00:03:23,750 program office and downtown and you know 84 00:03:27,819 --> 00:03:25,669 up until when I left space ops a couple 85 00:03:31,899 --> 00:03:27,829 years ago to do all the cross agency 86 00:03:36,189 --> 00:03:31,909 stuff in ipce I've spent a lawful lot of 87 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:36,199 time on Space Station okay I actually 88 00:03:42,729 --> 00:03:39,530 started with space station in 1989 down 89 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:42,739 at the Johnson Space Center my job was I 90 00:03:47,140 --> 00:03:44,810 was on the shuttle side and our job was 91 00:03:49,030 --> 00:03:47,150 essentially to figure out how to put 92 00:03:51,969 --> 00:03:49,040 together space station in the very 93 00:03:53,949 --> 00:03:51,979 beginning it started out with the trust 94 00:03:56,439 --> 00:03:53,959 being actually built itself from scratch 95 00:03:58,179 --> 00:03:56,449 we call it sticks and balls Space 96 00:03:59,589 --> 00:03:58,189 Station where we actually assembled the 97 00:04:01,659 --> 00:03:59,599 various we're going to assemble the 98 00:04:03,580 --> 00:04:01,669 various trust members and actually 99 00:04:05,499 --> 00:04:03,590 string the wiring in the trust and then 100 00:04:07,270 --> 00:04:05,509 actually put all the electronics and 101 00:04:09,759 --> 00:04:07,280 avionics components in the trust so that 102 00:04:12,249 --> 00:04:09,769 was the first activity i had and 103 00:04:14,259 --> 00:04:12,259 supported it in 1989 and then then we 104 00:04:15,819 --> 00:04:14,269 went to pre-integrated trusts and and 105 00:04:18,819 --> 00:04:15,829 then I continued to work with the 106 00:04:20,349 --> 00:04:18,829 program until nineteen ninety two then I 107 00:04:22,420 --> 00:04:20,359 went away to school when the Russians 108 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:22,430 got added then I came back to the 109 00:04:27,530 --> 00:04:25,849 shuttle program I guess after I got back 110 00:04:30,410 --> 00:04:27,540 from school and 111 00:04:32,750 --> 00:04:30,420 then eventually became deputy station 112 00:04:35,060 --> 00:04:32,760 program manager at the end so I was 113 00:04:38,150 --> 00:04:35,070 there put together most of the original 114 00:04:39,530 --> 00:04:38,160 assembly sequences that were used prior 115 00:04:41,390 --> 00:04:39,540 to the addition to the Russians and 116 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:41,400 somehow those assembly sequences really 117 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:43,170 held together throughout the entire 118 00:04:47,210 --> 00:04:45,570 period and I got to see him actually get 119 00:04:49,460 --> 00:04:47,220 implemented by the shuttle team and in 120 00:04:50,900 --> 00:04:49,470 later years so I've been kind of on and 121 00:04:52,790 --> 00:04:50,910 off the program between shuttle and 122 00:04:53,690 --> 00:04:52,800 station throughout the entire period of 123 00:04:56,330 --> 00:04:53,700 time I wasn't there from the very 124 00:04:58,970 --> 00:04:56,340 beginning but started in 1989 I think 125 00:05:03,110 --> 00:04:58,980 right after Mike in his area town of 126 00:05:04,250 --> 00:05:03,120 Johnson right in 1984 then President 127 00:05:06,890 --> 00:05:04,260 Ronald Reagan announced the development 128 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:06,900 of a permanent manned space station how 129 00:05:10,910 --> 00:05:08,490 have we gone and which was dub Space 130 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:10,920 Station freedom how have we gone from 131 00:05:14,870 --> 00:05:12,810 freedom to where we are today with 132 00:05:16,580 --> 00:05:14,880 international space station how did that 133 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:16,590 process happen and how was the station 134 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:18,330 different today it's originally 135 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:21,510 conceived we all take the first shot and 136 00:05:25,940 --> 00:05:23,930 see where folks want to go with it so 137 00:05:31,220 --> 00:05:25,950 fundamentally we worked on Space Station 138 00:05:32,990 --> 00:05:31,230 freedom once we establish the rest in 139 00:05:35,300 --> 00:05:33,000 program office as March that has started 140 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:35,310 in phase a actually in that 84 timeframe 141 00:05:41,420 --> 00:05:39,330 so for maybe four till about 92 and we 142 00:05:43,610 --> 00:05:41,430 were working with the Japanese the 143 00:05:46,310 --> 00:05:43,620 Europeans and the Canadians as partners 144 00:05:49,730 --> 00:05:46,320 already in the endeavor when we went 145 00:05:51,170 --> 00:05:49,740 through the redesign in 92 93 we were 146 00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:51,180 then asked to look at adding the 147 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:52,850 Russians to the configuration that 148 00:05:59,060 --> 00:05:56,370 allowed us to simplify some of the u.s. 149 00:06:03,350 --> 00:05:59,070 capabilities we no longer had us 150 00:06:04,460 --> 00:06:03,360 propulsion for an example but it it was 151 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:04,470 an incredible learning experience 152 00:06:09,590 --> 00:06:07,410 because that 10 years that we had spent 153 00:06:12,380 --> 00:06:09,600 with the other partners kind of forming 154 00:06:14,030 --> 00:06:12,390 a team and agreeing on technical 155 00:06:16,580 --> 00:06:14,040 standards for all of these different 156 00:06:17,660 --> 00:06:16,590 functions we now had to figure out how 157 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:17,670 to do that very quickly with the 158 00:06:22,630 --> 00:06:21,330 Russians the main trust backbone and 159 00:06:25,310 --> 00:06:22,640 everything of the space station is 160 00:06:27,110 --> 00:06:25,320 pretty much as it's been since the 161 00:06:29,390 --> 00:06:27,120 earlier so a lot of the configuration is 162 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:29,400 pretty much as we had planned it since 163 00:06:34,070 --> 00:06:32,250 the earliest time how about the missions 164 00:06:36,470 --> 00:06:34,080 I've read things before the freedom was 165 00:06:37,580 --> 00:06:36,480 supposed to service satellites and do 166 00:06:38,990 --> 00:06:37,590 some things that the space station now 167 00:06:39,950 --> 00:06:39,000 does and how has that changed why did 168 00:06:43,290 --> 00:06:39,960 that change 169 00:06:44,970 --> 00:06:43,300 is any well there were originally eight 170 00:06:47,730 --> 00:06:44,980 missions for the space station 171 00:06:49,740 --> 00:06:47,740 envisioned and I would argue that today 172 00:06:51,510 --> 00:06:49,750 we really see the remnants of all eight 173 00:06:54,540 --> 00:06:51,520 of those missions and even satellite 174 00:06:56,850 --> 00:06:54,550 servicing the technology's changed so 175 00:06:58,440 --> 00:06:56,860 dramatically over 25 years that there 176 00:07:00,630 --> 00:06:58,450 are opportunities to do things 177 00:07:03,090 --> 00:07:00,640 differently than they were envisioned 20 178 00:07:05,850 --> 00:07:03,100 years ago so you know we're starting to 179 00:07:08,100 --> 00:07:05,860 look at deployments and retrievals of 180 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:08,110 potentially nano satellites from the 181 00:07:12,930 --> 00:07:10,810 station we're looking at satellite 182 00:07:14,850 --> 00:07:12,940 servicing demonstrations on the station 183 00:07:18,020 --> 00:07:14,860 so many of the original eight missions 184 00:07:20,580 --> 00:07:18,030 are still applicable in varying degrees 185 00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:20,590 Liana folks tended to associate those 186 00:07:24,900 --> 00:07:22,510 missions with a unique component of the 187 00:07:26,460 --> 00:07:24,910 space station so during redesigns as 188 00:07:29,580 --> 00:07:26,470 those components may have been deleted 189 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:29,590 or changed a lot of folks presumed that 190 00:07:35,550 --> 00:07:31,570 that mission was no longer supported but 191 00:07:37,530 --> 00:07:35,560 I really agree with mark I see ability 192 00:07:39,710 --> 00:07:37,540 to do pieces of all of those missions in 193 00:07:42,540 --> 00:07:39,720 the space station that we have today 194 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:42,550 today there's 15 partner nations to 195 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:43,810 contribute International Space Station 196 00:07:47,070 --> 00:07:45,850 Lynn could you explain with the process 197 00:07:49,110 --> 00:07:47,080 how that came to be and how the 198 00:07:51,210 --> 00:07:49,120 agreements were put together well we 199 00:07:53,010 --> 00:07:51,220 already had a lot of experience on the 200 00:07:55,110 --> 00:07:53,020 shuttle with what I'll call our 201 00:07:59,010 --> 00:07:55,120 traditional partners Canada Europe and 202 00:08:01,290 --> 00:07:59,020 Japan and with Canada we had the remote 203 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:01,300 manipulator system on the arm on the 204 00:08:06,930 --> 00:08:03,490 shuttle with Europe we had the space lab 205 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:06,940 experience Japan had not contributed an 206 00:08:12,180 --> 00:08:10,690 element to the shuttle and so when we 207 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:12,190 started talking with them they were very 208 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:15,130 interested in doing so in our next human 209 00:08:20,730 --> 00:08:18,010 space flight endeavour so we had looked 210 00:08:22,710 --> 00:08:20,740 at what were our past experiences what 211 00:08:27,060 --> 00:08:22,720 were their capabilities we had studies 212 00:08:28,860 --> 00:08:27,070 going on for years on what we might come 213 00:08:31,260 --> 00:08:28,870 up with in terms of a design and what 214 00:08:34,050 --> 00:08:31,270 partners wanted to do so we really knew 215 00:08:35,969 --> 00:08:34,060 who those partners were going to be when 216 00:08:37,650 --> 00:08:35,979 the when the program was announced and 217 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:37,660 then we had to go through the formal 218 00:08:43,860 --> 00:08:40,570 process to to invite them and work the 219 00:08:46,140 --> 00:08:43,870 negotiations but it was really built on 220 00:08:49,580 --> 00:08:46,150 a long history of collaboration with 221 00:08:53,030 --> 00:08:51,560 would add and I think that the thing 222 00:08:55,220 --> 00:08:53,040 that's kind of interesting about all 223 00:08:57,380 --> 00:08:55,230 this histories we look back is we put 224 00:08:59,420 --> 00:08:57,390 together a basic framework from both the 225 00:09:01,190 --> 00:08:59,430 hardware standpoint and even from a like 226 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:01,200 an international partner standpoint that 227 00:09:06,230 --> 00:09:03,930 was pretty flexible so as things changed 228 00:09:08,300 --> 00:09:06,240 and missions change the hardware was 229 00:09:10,820 --> 00:09:08,310 able to adapt to a kind of a changing 230 00:09:13,580 --> 00:09:10,830 mission a changing role the the 231 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:13,590 agreements the mo used the the 232 00:09:17,450 --> 00:09:15,210 intergovernmental agreements those 233 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:17,460 things they're flexible enough that we 234 00:09:21,170 --> 00:09:19,410 could adapt those and morph those as we 235 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:21,180 added other partners and we did things 236 00:09:24,290 --> 00:09:22,530 that weren't really envisioned in the 237 00:09:25,940 --> 00:09:24,300 beginning but they gave us enough of a 238 00:09:28,070 --> 00:09:25,950 structure that we could hang together as 239 00:09:31,940 --> 00:09:28,080 a team and continue to move forward so I 240 00:09:34,190 --> 00:09:31,950 think the big kind of lesson learned is 241 00:09:36,020 --> 00:09:34,200 that you when you start out a project is 242 00:09:37,700 --> 00:09:36,030 make sure you got the right flexibility 243 00:09:39,230 --> 00:09:37,710 inherent in the design because you may 244 00:09:40,790 --> 00:09:39,240 not end up with exactly what you 245 00:09:42,260 --> 00:09:40,800 envisioned when you first put the 246 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:42,270 concept together but you need that 247 00:09:47,090 --> 00:09:44,370 framework put together that you can 248 00:09:48,890 --> 00:09:47,100 operate in it in a different way yeah 249 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:48,900 one of the interesting things to me is 250 00:09:53,990 --> 00:09:51,410 when we started design and development 251 00:09:55,910 --> 00:09:54,000 we operated under a structure that we 252 00:10:00,200 --> 00:09:55,920 referred to as being bilateral where it 253 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:00,210 was the us to Japan the u.s. to east of 254 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:02,610 the US to canada and then ultimately 255 00:10:07,490 --> 00:10:05,610 russia and that was to try to ensure 256 00:10:09,410 --> 00:10:07,500 that we weren't in each other's critical 257 00:10:11,030 --> 00:10:09,420 path and we always envisioned that we 258 00:10:13,250 --> 00:10:11,040 would get to this operational time frame 259 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:13,260 that would be fully multilateral where 260 00:10:17,810 --> 00:10:16,050 the full team was working together and I 261 00:10:19,340 --> 00:10:17,820 remember going through those years and 262 00:10:22,220 --> 00:10:19,350 never thinking we were ever going to get 263 00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:22,230 to that multilateral point and that's 264 00:10:26,090 --> 00:10:24,720 what we do every day now I mean that's 265 00:10:27,950 --> 00:10:26,100 what gerse does every day that's what 266 00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:27,960 the mission management team does every 267 00:10:32,420 --> 00:10:30,570 day is work in that fully multilateral 268 00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:32,430 mode with all partners present all 269 00:10:38,750 --> 00:10:34,800 partners work in their issues and coming 270 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:38,760 up with totally joint solutions did the 271 00:10:42,740 --> 00:10:40,890 ideas that the the development change or 272 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:42,750 did the structure change at all when you 273 00:10:46,730 --> 00:10:45,450 decided to make Russia a partner in the 274 00:10:47,810 --> 00:10:46,740 space stations I know originally wasn't 275 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:47,820 conceived they weren't originally 276 00:10:51,530 --> 00:10:49,050 conceived to be a partner of space 277 00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:51,540 station what changed when they became 278 00:10:57,770 --> 00:10:55,440 involved from a physical configuration 279 00:10:59,360 --> 00:10:57,780 like I said we dropped propulsion 280 00:11:03,410 --> 00:10:59,370 modules that we had planned on the US 281 00:11:05,180 --> 00:11:03,420 side we we went to a different module 282 00:11:08,330 --> 00:11:05,190 configuration we used to have what we 283 00:11:11,210 --> 00:11:08,340 call a racetrack configuration of nodes 284 00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:11,220 in the lab and have idols and we 285 00:11:17,770 --> 00:11:13,680 incorporated what the Russians felt that 286 00:11:19,970 --> 00:11:17,780 they could contribute to the program and 287 00:11:22,250 --> 00:11:19,980 worked on what that central core 288 00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:22,260 configuration was with the FGB and then 289 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:26,880 the service module provided through the 290 00:11:31,250 --> 00:11:29,970 Russians and so we had to do some things 291 00:11:32,450 --> 00:11:31,260 in the interfaces that were a little 292 00:11:36,410 --> 00:11:32,460 different than we did with the other 293 00:11:38,210 --> 00:11:36,420 partners but we did bring the Russians 294 00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:38,220 into that full multilateral partnership 295 00:11:41,930 --> 00:11:40,110 still had some aspects of the 296 00:11:44,830 --> 00:11:41,940 relationship which were bilateral and 297 00:11:47,810 --> 00:11:44,840 others that were fully multilateral 298 00:11:50,270 --> 00:11:47,820 another thing that changed was a partner 299 00:11:51,980 --> 00:11:50,280 roles in transportation so in the 300 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:51,990 original agreements it always had 301 00:11:56,210 --> 00:11:53,850 provided that other partners could bring 302 00:11:58,580 --> 00:11:56,220 their their transportation systems up to 303 00:12:01,490 --> 00:11:58,590 the station but when we brought Russia 304 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:01,500 into the program Europe and Japan also 305 00:12:06,500 --> 00:12:04,170 asked for a greater role for their 306 00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:06,510 transportation systems and so we ended 307 00:12:11,510 --> 00:12:09,360 up as we renegotiated the agreements 308 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:11,520 putting in offset arrangements to use 309 00:12:17,780 --> 00:12:14,370 the aryan and the h2 for the cargo 310 00:12:20,180 --> 00:12:17,790 capability and reboost things like that 311 00:12:22,270 --> 00:12:20,190 and those were to offset their common 312 00:12:25,460 --> 00:12:22,280 systems operations costs that were also 313 00:12:27,170 --> 00:12:25,470 always there in the agreement but there 314 00:12:29,450 --> 00:12:27,180 was a preference for trading goods and 315 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:29,460 services rather than paying in cash and 316 00:12:35,270 --> 00:12:32,970 so cementing those into specific 317 00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:35,280 obligations in the agreement that 318 00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:37,200 changed when we went through that second 319 00:12:40,970 --> 00:12:39,660 round of negotiations and obviously 320 00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:40,980 without the Russians we had no 321 00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:43,110 alternative crew transport to the space 322 00:12:47,300 --> 00:12:44,880 station it was all envisioned on the 323 00:12:49,490 --> 00:12:47,310 space shuttle and before there was the 324 00:12:51,290 --> 00:12:49,500 space station there was the Russian 325 00:12:54,470 --> 00:12:51,300 space station Mir did we learning 326 00:12:56,150 --> 00:12:54,480 lessons from you know the over a decade 327 00:12:57,530 --> 00:12:56,160 of use of space the space station Mir 328 00:13:01,040 --> 00:12:57,540 before the space station was developed 329 00:13:03,110 --> 00:13:01,050 and implemented I think the face one 330 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:03,120 program we had where we actually used 331 00:13:07,700 --> 00:13:05,450 the shuttle to go to mirror was 332 00:13:08,990 --> 00:13:07,710 unbelievably beneficial for us and 333 00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:09,000 learning how to operate with the 334 00:13:13,220 --> 00:13:10,320 Russians and how to operate 335 00:13:15,020 --> 00:13:13,230 long-duration spaceflight you know we 336 00:13:16,879 --> 00:13:15,030 were very good at shuttle missions you 337 00:13:19,789 --> 00:13:16,889 know a week or two weeks of varied 338 00:13:21,889 --> 00:13:19,799 dedicated very focused activities we had 339 00:13:24,590 --> 00:13:21,899 not had much experience at doing long 340 00:13:26,900 --> 00:13:24,600 duration multiple month activities and 341 00:13:28,340 --> 00:13:26,910 we were fairly inexperienced in some of 342 00:13:30,169 --> 00:13:28,350 that so I think we learned a lot from 343 00:13:32,059 --> 00:13:30,179 the Russians and our inter phase one 344 00:13:35,239 --> 00:13:32,069 program that we carried in to the 345 00:13:37,069 --> 00:13:35,249 station operations piece I think the 346 00:13:39,199 --> 00:13:37,079 mirror also benefited tremendously from 347 00:13:40,970 --> 00:13:39,209 the shuttle being there I think mayor's 348 00:13:42,619 --> 00:13:40,980 life was actually extended by the fact 349 00:13:45,109 --> 00:13:42,629 that we had the ability to bring large 350 00:13:47,869 --> 00:13:45,119 components up to up to mirror and return 351 00:13:49,549 --> 00:13:47,879 components from mere down so I think it 352 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:49,559 was a good learning experience that also 353 00:13:53,329 --> 00:13:51,569 allowed us to learn to work bilaterally 354 00:13:55,159 --> 00:13:53,339 with the Russians I think it would have 355 00:13:56,780 --> 00:13:55,169 been tough to step right up to space 356 00:13:59,689 --> 00:13:56,790 station operations without some 357 00:14:02,239 --> 00:13:59,699 experience of operating with them on the 358 00:14:03,949 --> 00:14:02,249 MIR program so it was kind of a it was a 359 00:14:05,749 --> 00:14:03,959 good chance for us to learn developed 360 00:14:07,849 --> 00:14:05,759 techniques and learn to operate together 361 00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:07,859 bilaterally and then get ready to move 362 00:14:11,869 --> 00:14:10,230 in to the station stuff and what Mike 363 00:14:14,119 --> 00:14:11,879 brought up was very interesting you know 364 00:14:15,889 --> 00:14:14,129 we worked pretty strongly bilaterally 365 00:14:17,869 --> 00:14:15,899 with the Russians because the FGB was 366 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:17,879 there our modules were there you know 367 00:14:21,169 --> 00:14:19,410 then we started bringing up the other 368 00:14:23,150 --> 00:14:21,179 partner modules Columbus and the 369 00:14:24,889 --> 00:14:23,160 Japanese and then we had to add them in 370 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:24,899 and then that really forced us to start 371 00:14:28,549 --> 00:14:26,730 really working in a true multilateral 372 00:14:31,519 --> 00:14:28,559 environment but I don't think we could 373 00:14:33,739 --> 00:14:31,529 have gotten there as easily it really 374 00:14:35,569 --> 00:14:33,749 helped to do the bilateral pieces first 375 00:14:36,979 --> 00:14:35,579 and establish those relationships that 376 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:36,989 you had something to build off before 377 00:14:42,799 --> 00:14:38,730 you step to the more integrated 378 00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:42,809 multilateral program okay fast forward 379 00:14:45,949 --> 00:14:44,639 in a space station we are today mark one 380 00:14:47,479 --> 00:14:45,959 of the things that you know we have 381 00:14:48,829 --> 00:14:47,489 trouble communicating to the outside 382 00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:48,839 world we kind understand the potential 383 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:50,910 for scientific research for Space 384 00:14:54,470 --> 00:14:52,410 Station inside NASA but sometimes that's 385 00:14:56,479 --> 00:14:54,480 hard to to communicate to others that 386 00:14:57,829 --> 00:14:56,489 don't quite get it what would you say 387 00:15:00,619 --> 00:14:57,839 how would you describe the unique 388 00:15:03,529 --> 00:15:00,629 environment of space station and why 389 00:15:05,809 --> 00:15:03,539 that's important to researchers well 390 00:15:07,879 --> 00:15:05,819 when you take gravity out of equations 391 00:15:10,159 --> 00:15:07,889 of motion you fundamentally change the 392 00:15:12,650 --> 00:15:10,169 way particles interact at the cellular 393 00:15:14,659 --> 00:15:12,660 or the molecular level whether you're 394 00:15:17,210 --> 00:15:14,669 looking at in organic systems like 395 00:15:20,449 --> 00:15:17,220 metals and alloys that are undergoing a 396 00:15:22,130 --> 00:15:20,459 change of state or biological systems 397 00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:22,140 like cells and 398 00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:24,510 and molecular structures they all have 399 00:15:29,420 --> 00:15:27,630 motion of them and those that motion 400 00:15:31,490 --> 00:15:29,430 follows laws of motion that we 401 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:31,500 understand very well on the ground in a 402 00:15:35,750 --> 00:15:33,690 1g environment but you put it up in 403 00:15:37,130 --> 00:15:35,760 space and you take gravity out of that 404 00:15:39,470 --> 00:15:37,140 equation of motion and you get a 405 00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:39,480 different answer and sometimes those 406 00:15:44,390 --> 00:15:41,100 different answers can really lead to 407 00:15:45,620 --> 00:15:44,400 some provocative results ok well the 408 00:15:47,390 --> 00:15:45,630 milestone we're celebrating in today is 409 00:15:50,930 --> 00:15:47,400 10 years of human occupancy on Space 410 00:15:52,970 --> 00:15:50,940 Station mr. Gerstenmaier was over time 411 00:15:54,770 --> 00:15:52,980 when you felt that the space station 412 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:54,780 might have to be demand was there either 413 00:15:58,970 --> 00:15:57,450 technical reason or a logistical reason 414 00:16:02,600 --> 00:15:58,980 why you Nala no longer be able to keeps 415 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:02,610 people on station do is you know if we 416 00:16:06,860 --> 00:16:03,930 kind of started back at the very 417 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:06,870 beginning it was it was interesting 418 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:08,850 because station we used to build from 419 00:16:15,170 --> 00:16:13,410 the solar arrays in board and that made 420 00:16:16,820 --> 00:16:15,180 sense because we had power up first and 421 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:16,830 in communication systems and then we 422 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:19,170 built essentially the support structure 423 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:20,850 and then we hung the pressurized modules 424 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:22,290 underneath and then we were going to add 425 00:16:26,540 --> 00:16:24,930 the crew right well that and I have 426 00:16:27,950 --> 00:16:26,550 documentation where that's the way we 427 00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:27,960 had put the plan together and then we 428 00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:29,310 were told that that wasn't going to cut 429 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:30,720 it because we needed to get crew there 430 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:32,490 earlier so we needed to build the other 431 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:34,050 way out we need to start with the 432 00:16:38,570 --> 00:16:35,610 pressurized modules and then build 433 00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:38,580 outward so so we had to redo the entire 434 00:16:43,850 --> 00:16:40,800 sequence that forced us to put the p6 435 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:43,860 temporary trust that's the port 6 solar 436 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:45,810 array up on top to write temporary power 437 00:16:50,060 --> 00:16:48,330 we were lucky we had the FGB so we could 438 00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:50,070 use it as a power source and provide 439 00:16:53,870 --> 00:16:51,540 life support for us it provided those 440 00:16:55,940 --> 00:16:53,880 basic functions on station and then we 441 00:16:58,670 --> 00:16:55,950 could build outward so I think the first 442 00:16:59,930 --> 00:16:58,680 thing was that we got told to do it a 443 00:17:01,340 --> 00:16:59,940 different way than we would have done it 444 00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:01,350 technically because it was important to 445 00:17:04,490 --> 00:17:02,880 get crew on orbit to actually start 446 00:17:07,069 --> 00:17:04,500 doing some research and utilize the 447 00:17:08,540 --> 00:17:07,079 facility and not wait seven years until 448 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:08,550 everything got built out and then you 449 00:17:12,140 --> 00:17:10,410 were ready to bring the crew up so that 450 00:17:14,090 --> 00:17:12,150 was an important first consideration I 451 00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:14,100 was in the shuttle program at the time 452 00:17:18,980 --> 00:17:15,839 when we decided to bring the first crew 453 00:17:20,689 --> 00:17:18,990 up we had not really even brought the 454 00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:20,699 First Solar ray up I believe when we 455 00:17:24,590 --> 00:17:23,280 when we added the crew I probably from 456 00:17:26,090 --> 00:17:24,600 again from a technical standpoint I 457 00:17:28,580 --> 00:17:26,100 would have waited maybe one more flight 458 00:17:30,050 --> 00:17:28,590 before we added crew and I remember 459 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:30,060 having some discussions with Tommy 460 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:32,010 Holloway again I was the evil shuttle 461 00:17:34,510 --> 00:17:33,930 side and he was the station side at the 462 00:17:36,190 --> 00:17:34,520 time and 463 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:36,200 and I told him we had to wait one more 464 00:17:39,010 --> 00:17:37,850 flight and he told me there's no way we 465 00:17:40,570 --> 00:17:39,020 wait one more flight we're going to 466 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:40,580 bring the crew up now the station is 467 00:17:43,930 --> 00:17:42,650 ready for him so I would tell you again 468 00:17:45,340 --> 00:17:43,940 from my conservative technical 469 00:17:46,780 --> 00:17:45,350 standpoint I might have waited another 470 00:17:48,820 --> 00:17:46,790 flight before we brought the crew on 471 00:17:50,410 --> 00:17:48,830 orbit but we did and it was fine there 472 00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:50,420 was the you know the station worked well 473 00:17:54,220 --> 00:17:52,640 and things went forward I think when we 474 00:17:56,590 --> 00:17:54,230 had to Columbia tragedy that was 475 00:18:00,040 --> 00:17:56,600 probably the closest we came to really 476 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:00,050 happen to remove the crew you know we 477 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:01,490 looked at what it would take to keep 478 00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:03,410 three crew members on station without 479 00:18:07,330 --> 00:18:05,510 the shuttle capability and there was 480 00:18:09,820 --> 00:18:07,340 just no way we could support the full 481 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:09,830 complement of three crew and so we had a 482 00:18:13,690 --> 00:18:11,930 choice to go back and recommend a get 483 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:13,700 additional so use in progress vehicles 484 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:15,770 but we were prohibited because of the I 485 00:18:20,530 --> 00:18:18,650 Ron non North Korea Syria 486 00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:20,540 non-proliferation act of getting those 487 00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:22,130 extra modules so we really had no choice 488 00:18:26,290 --> 00:18:24,710 but to drop the crew size and then when 489 00:18:27,820 --> 00:18:26,300 we drop the crew size it wasn't 490 00:18:29,740 --> 00:18:27,830 guaranteed that we could actually make 491 00:18:31,660 --> 00:18:29,750 it through that first summer in fact we 492 00:18:33,250 --> 00:18:31,670 were going to be short of water on the 493 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:33,260 shuttle because of its fuel cells 494 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:35,690 generates a lot of water we had worried 495 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:38,090 about water it was a very plentiful 496 00:18:41,020 --> 00:18:39,650 source because the shuttle was always 497 00:18:42,610 --> 00:18:41,030 there but when the shuttle was pulled 498 00:18:44,050 --> 00:18:42,620 away we didn't have enough water to 499 00:18:46,330 --> 00:18:44,060 really make it through that summer and 500 00:18:48,460 --> 00:18:46,340 we really needed a way to get water at a 501 00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:48,470 station we wanted to make a mod to the 502 00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:50,150 progress vehicle to add additional water 503 00:18:54,670 --> 00:18:53,120 tanks but we couldn't do that because we 504 00:18:57,250 --> 00:18:54,680 didn't have the ability to spend money 505 00:18:58,990 --> 00:18:57,260 with the Russians the Russians didn't 506 00:19:01,960 --> 00:18:59,000 want to do it without us spending money 507 00:19:03,910 --> 00:19:01,970 to do the tank so we spent many 508 00:19:05,980 --> 00:19:03,920 wonderful meetings throughout that 509 00:19:08,620 --> 00:19:05,990 spring trying to figure out how we were 510 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:08,630 going to keep the crew on orbit and then 511 00:19:12,550 --> 00:19:11,090 I went over to Russia for her series of 512 00:19:14,770 --> 00:19:12,560 meetings and they were showing me around 513 00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:14,780 the floor where they build the solution 514 00:19:18,340 --> 00:19:16,370 of progress vehicles and they told me to 515 00:19:19,930 --> 00:19:18,350 stick my head in a progress vehicle and 516 00:19:21,790 --> 00:19:19,940 I did and right in the middle of 517 00:19:24,550 --> 00:19:21,800 progress vehicle was welded a water tank 518 00:19:26,290 --> 00:19:24,560 and so then they told me that you know 519 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:26,300 we do what we need to do when it's time 520 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:28,930 to go do it but not before and so they 521 00:19:32,890 --> 00:19:31,370 put the water tank in which allowed us 522 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:32,900 to make it through the summer with the 523 00:19:37,540 --> 00:19:35,570 two-person crew and we had not done very 524 00:19:40,030 --> 00:19:37,550 good in keeping track of food and 525 00:19:42,010 --> 00:19:40,040 supplies and cargo we then implemented 526 00:19:44,290 --> 00:19:42,020 all these things to keep track of all 527 00:19:46,450 --> 00:19:44,300 these supplies and we built essentially 528 00:19:47,919 --> 00:19:46,460 a timeline that was a variable we didn't 529 00:19:49,509 --> 00:19:47,929 know exactly when the shuttle 530 00:19:51,639 --> 00:19:49,519 kind of return to flight so we had to 531 00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:51,649 just do the best to kind of fly from 532 00:19:54,909 --> 00:19:53,360 milestone the milestone know when we had 533 00:19:57,279 --> 00:19:54,919 to make decisions when we had to fly 534 00:19:59,200 --> 00:19:57,289 hardware up so there was no guarantee i 535 00:20:00,580 --> 00:19:59,210 used to tell the station team that you 536 00:20:02,919 --> 00:20:00,590 know our job is to return the crew 537 00:20:05,259 --> 00:20:02,929 safely you know if we can keep them on 538 00:20:07,749 --> 00:20:05,269 orbit great but if we need to know it 539 00:20:09,399 --> 00:20:07,759 advance that enough 40 days in advance 540 00:20:10,989 --> 00:20:09,409 that we can schedule a return so we can 541 00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:10,999 get them into sois we can schedule the 542 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:12,590 right rescue forces to be there to pick 543 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:14,570 them up so it's just like a nominal end 544 00:20:17,529 --> 00:20:16,129 of mission so it would be a little bit 545 00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:17,539 early but it would be a normal n de 546 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:18,799 mission for the crew so the crew would 547 00:20:22,629 --> 00:20:20,570 be a no additional safety risk but our 548 00:20:24,369 --> 00:20:22,639 job was to anticipate with enough 549 00:20:26,019 --> 00:20:24,379 knowledge we were 40 days from afton 550 00:20:28,180 --> 00:20:26,029 returned to cruise so we kind of kept a 551 00:20:29,980 --> 00:20:28,190 running time line of where we that many 552 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:29,990 days away from half to return the crew 553 00:20:33,369 --> 00:20:31,850 and if the wrong components would have 554 00:20:35,019 --> 00:20:33,379 broke at the wrong time in the wrong 555 00:20:36,609 --> 00:20:35,029 sequence we probably would have had to 556 00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:36,619 return the crew but we were lucky during 557 00:20:39,970 --> 00:20:38,480 the whole down time that that all the 558 00:20:41,739 --> 00:20:39,980 hardware stayed together we had some 559 00:20:43,210 --> 00:20:41,749 pumps that failed and some other 560 00:20:45,879 --> 00:20:43,220 components that fail but we had enough 561 00:20:48,580 --> 00:20:45,889 time to bring them up so it was a it was 562 00:20:50,289 --> 00:20:48,590 a tight period through that point but 563 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:50,299 again the teams did a phenomenal job of 564 00:20:54,909 --> 00:20:52,129 handle and uncertainty and figuring out 565 00:20:56,950 --> 00:20:54,919 a way to deal and operate in that manner 566 00:20:58,629 --> 00:20:56,960 so again I think we learned tremendous 567 00:21:01,090 --> 00:20:58,639 lessons about what you can do and and 568 00:21:02,980 --> 00:21:01,100 how with the right overall overarching 569 00:21:06,279 --> 00:21:02,990 goals you can accomplish amazing things 570 00:21:07,539 --> 00:21:06,289 if you set your set your targets the 571 00:21:09,789 --> 00:21:07,549 right way and you remain flexible 572 00:21:12,850 --> 00:21:09,799 throughout the period to get done what 573 00:21:14,470 --> 00:21:12,860 you need to go do so it was it was a it 574 00:21:17,529 --> 00:21:14,480 was an interesting period to get through 575 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:17,539 and it worked out very well in hindsight 576 00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:19,490 but there sure were no guarantees as we 577 00:21:22,269 --> 00:21:21,200 were going through this whole period you 578 00:21:24,220 --> 00:21:22,279 know one of the interesting things 579 00:21:27,759 --> 00:21:24,230 engrossed raised earlier in terms of 580 00:21:29,950 --> 00:21:27,769 this the shuttle mentality we had versus 581 00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:29,960 the long-duration spaceflight mentality 582 00:21:35,230 --> 00:21:33,529 that the Russians had and we had 583 00:21:37,149 --> 00:21:35,240 intellectual discussions i would say 584 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:37,159 about that difference for a long time 585 00:21:43,899 --> 00:21:40,369 and you know also in your reaction to 586 00:21:46,180 --> 00:21:43,909 crises on the shuttle side you know we 587 00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:46,190 have all kinds of rules about this 588 00:21:50,259 --> 00:21:47,840 failure that fell you you come home and 589 00:21:53,409 --> 00:21:50,269 how quickly do you come home well in a 590 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:53,419 space station kind of scenario it's what 591 00:21:58,659 --> 00:21:56,570 do you do to stay there and deal with 592 00:22:01,799 --> 00:21:58,669 your situation and 593 00:22:04,330 --> 00:22:01,809 keep the ship line you know more akin to 594 00:22:07,330 --> 00:22:04,340 an accident an issue that you would have 595 00:22:09,639 --> 00:22:07,340 out on a ship somewhere in the ocean and 596 00:22:12,249 --> 00:22:09,649 now having lives through not just the 597 00:22:14,139 --> 00:22:12,259 the Columbia timeframe that girls talked 598 00:22:15,999 --> 00:22:14,149 about but there have been all kinds of 599 00:22:19,210 --> 00:22:16,009 issues where equipment has failed and 600 00:22:20,979 --> 00:22:19,220 and we've been down tracking margins 601 00:22:23,739 --> 00:22:20,989 really carefully tag to get through this 602 00:22:25,029 --> 00:22:23,749 month but that's that's what we ought to 603 00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:25,039 be learning and that's what we have to 604 00:22:30,580 --> 00:22:27,769 learn to explore because we're not 605 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:30,590 coming home you know we're celebrating 606 00:22:36,999 --> 00:22:34,129 10 years that not every human has lived 607 00:22:39,489 --> 00:22:37,009 on the planet and if we're going to go 608 00:22:41,710 --> 00:22:39,499 beyond our biggest strategic goal number 609 00:22:44,529 --> 00:22:41,720 one is expand human presence beyond 610 00:22:47,349 --> 00:22:44,539 low-earth orbit those are the things we 611 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:47,359 have to learn how do you continue to get 612 00:22:52,659 --> 00:22:49,970 further in distance and time from our 613 00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:52,669 home planet yet be able to deal with all 614 00:22:57,599 --> 00:22:54,230 of those challenges that we have in 615 00:23:00,009 --> 00:22:57,609 spaceflight that's what space station is 616 00:23:01,330 --> 00:23:00,019 maybe it'd be nice if each of you can 617 00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:01,340 answer this question what do you the 618 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:03,529 past decade would you describe as the 619 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:05,450 biggest large-scale and small-scale 620 00:23:11,019 --> 00:23:07,129 challenge you faced or the space 621 00:23:14,349 --> 00:23:11,029 stations based mark on a large scale 622 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:14,359 when I reflect back on the 1980s the 623 00:23:19,539 --> 00:23:16,369 late 80s as the first partners were 624 00:23:22,690 --> 00:23:19,549 coming on board it really began as a 625 00:23:25,180 --> 00:23:22,700 tower of babel it was very difficult at 626 00:23:28,570 --> 00:23:25,190 the beginning but within two to three 627 00:23:31,239 --> 00:23:28,580 years it came together and then over a 628 00:23:32,859 --> 00:23:31,249 decade we we have families we had people 629 00:23:35,499 --> 00:23:32,869 getting married between partners 630 00:23:37,899 --> 00:23:35,509 children being born so that the 631 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:37,909 challenge was fusing that team and once 632 00:23:44,379 --> 00:23:41,450 that team was fused it's an incredible 633 00:23:46,239 --> 00:23:44,389 performance and I don't really think 634 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:46,249 there were any small challenges I mean 635 00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:47,570 the way I look back on the station 636 00:23:52,989 --> 00:23:51,529 program we lurched from what what at the 637 00:23:56,379 --> 00:23:52,999 time seemed like insurmountable 638 00:24:01,149 --> 00:23:56,389 challenges that were eventually every 639 00:24:03,909 --> 00:24:01,159 single one of them overcome okay when 640 00:24:05,859 --> 00:24:03,919 yeah I from my personal experience the 641 00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:05,869 biggest challenge was bringing Russia 642 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:09,919 into the program no I'm haven't been 643 00:24:13,390 --> 00:24:11,570 working down in the technical 644 00:24:18,190 --> 00:24:13,400 details but up at that at that sort of 645 00:24:21,490 --> 00:24:18,200 big-picture policy level and it was it 646 00:24:23,410 --> 00:24:21,500 was driven by budget pressures political 647 00:24:26,980 --> 00:24:23,420 pressures a whole lot of external 648 00:24:31,780 --> 00:24:26,990 factors beyond NASA that forced it it 649 00:24:34,930 --> 00:24:31,790 really tested our original partnership I 650 00:24:37,540 --> 00:24:34,940 think there was a concern by Canada 651 00:24:41,350 --> 00:24:37,550 Europe and Japan that somehow they would 652 00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:41,360 be not viewed as as important because 653 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:42,950 the Russians came with so much 654 00:24:49,270 --> 00:24:46,850 capability and and we've heard a little 655 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:49,280 bit about the differences in how we were 656 00:24:53,380 --> 00:24:50,810 doing human spaceflight and how the 657 00:24:56,890 --> 00:24:53,390 Russians were merging those two 658 00:24:59,200 --> 00:24:56,900 different philosophical approaches and 659 00:25:02,590 --> 00:24:59,210 and coming to the point now where it is 660 00:25:06,460 --> 00:25:02,600 a partnership that that is a single 661 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:06,470 partnership and not us versus them kind 662 00:25:13,180 --> 00:25:08,930 of an attitude i think was a really big 663 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:13,190 challenge that we've overcome great you 664 00:25:19,810 --> 00:25:14,570 know the early years of space station 665 00:25:23,790 --> 00:25:19,820 for me were just a continuum of budget 666 00:25:26,110 --> 00:25:23,800 cuts and redesigns and redesigns and and 667 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:26,120 going through the transition that bill 668 00:25:29,290 --> 00:25:28,130 described where we actually convinced 669 00:25:30,970 --> 00:25:29,300 ourselves that we weren't going to be 670 00:25:32,410 --> 00:25:30,980 able to build a space station and we had 671 00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:32,420 to go with what we call pre-integrated 672 00:25:39,310 --> 00:25:34,400 trust with everything built and 673 00:25:43,540 --> 00:25:39,320 assembled on the ground you know and 674 00:25:46,570 --> 00:25:43,550 then you have the 92 93 redesign and the 675 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:46,580 addition of the Russians and you know 676 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:49,850 every one of those was a big challenge 677 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:51,410 and tough and it was tough to hold the 678 00:25:57,790 --> 00:25:55,010 team together on the small side you know 679 00:26:00,070 --> 00:25:57,800 i can remember having arguments probably 680 00:26:02,170 --> 00:26:00,080 just as passionate as those big moments 681 00:26:05,950 --> 00:26:02,180 about what a specific requirement said 682 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:05,960 in a particular requirements document 683 00:26:09,820 --> 00:26:07,370 that you know in the rearview mirror 684 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:09,830 looks a whole lot less important than 685 00:26:19,810 --> 00:26:17,950 yeah boy I think back their word it's 686 00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:19,820 amazing the things that we've been 687 00:26:24,790 --> 00:26:22,400 through it's you know we started out 688 00:26:26,260 --> 00:26:24,800 with the station that was like I talked 689 00:26:30,070 --> 00:26:26,270 about that was essentially assembled 690 00:26:31,570 --> 00:26:30,080 from scratch that we we did a huge study 691 00:26:33,310 --> 00:26:31,580 up here where we looked at all kinds of 692 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:33,320 different options of rebuilding Space 693 00:26:39,670 --> 00:26:35,930 Station we must have had 15 different 694 00:26:41,470 --> 00:26:39,680 concepts come together of different ways 695 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:41,480 to build station then we ended up with 696 00:26:46,660 --> 00:26:43,850 the pre-integrated trusts and then the 697 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:46,670 reston team it was getting started and 698 00:26:50,290 --> 00:26:48,290 that was a tough thing for us to 699 00:26:52,990 --> 00:26:50,300 centralize program management away from 700 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:53,000 a field center up here at Washington and 701 00:26:57,100 --> 00:26:55,490 then we just about got rest and 702 00:26:59,170 --> 00:26:57,110 functional and then we decided that 703 00:27:01,420 --> 00:26:59,180 wasn't a good idea so let's break apart 704 00:27:02,890 --> 00:27:01,430 rest and then let's get rid of the work 705 00:27:06,130 --> 00:27:02,900 packages and let's hire a prime 706 00:27:08,260 --> 00:27:06,140 contractor and all these things are any 707 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:08,270 one of them could have ended the program 708 00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:10,610 you know we then we had the famous one 709 00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:13,910 vote that kept station alive which was a 710 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:16,370 huge thing at or stationed was going to 711 00:27:21,730 --> 00:27:19,850 be gone we had in two thousand we were 712 00:27:24,220 --> 00:27:21,740 five billion dollars over budget they 713 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:24,230 came in and told us essentially node 3 714 00:27:28,270 --> 00:27:26,210 was not going to fly the habitation 715 00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:28,280 module wasn't going to fly kupil wasn't 716 00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:30,200 going to fly regenerative equalist 717 00:27:33,970 --> 00:27:32,240 wasn't going to be there spit him wasn't 718 00:27:36,220 --> 00:27:33,980 god Dexter wasn't going to be there and 719 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:36,230 then somehow all those things are still 720 00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:38,930 on station and we still somehow cut 5 721 00:27:43,330 --> 00:27:40,640 billion dollars out of our budget which 722 00:27:45,490 --> 00:27:43,340 was not the most pleasant thing in the 723 00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:45,500 world so you look at all those things 724 00:27:51,490 --> 00:27:48,080 and and any one of them you could have 725 00:27:53,170 --> 00:27:51,500 just thrown in the towel and and and and 726 00:27:55,150 --> 00:27:53,180 quit but I think the spirit of the 727 00:27:58,030 --> 00:27:55,160 partnership was we became dependent upon 728 00:28:00,310 --> 00:27:58,040 each other we recognized a potential of 729 00:28:02,740 --> 00:28:00,320 station and so we kept moving forward so 730 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:02,750 now I think the big challenge is you 731 00:28:05,860 --> 00:28:04,250 know we've been through this 10 years of 732 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:05,870 human presence now we need to look 733 00:28:09,790 --> 00:28:07,570 forward to that next 10 years of 734 00:28:11,710 --> 00:28:09,800 research and actually reap and some 735 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:11,720 benefit from this wonderful facility 736 00:28:16,750 --> 00:28:13,850 we've built into space so we needn't now 737 00:28:18,430 --> 00:28:16,760 need to take that same same optimism 738 00:28:20,890 --> 00:28:18,440 that same zeal that we put into that 739 00:28:23,260 --> 00:28:20,900 assembly to get here and throw that into 740 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:23,270 tinder research and see if we can really 741 00:28:27,340 --> 00:28:25,130 show the true benefit of space so that's 742 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:27,350 that's our next challenge and 743 00:28:32,289 --> 00:28:29,570 I'm sure it will be full of all these 744 00:28:35,409 --> 00:28:32,299 big challenges that are coming every day 745 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:35,419 there's something new that's it's a it's 746 00:28:39,940 --> 00:28:37,490 a little tough to work around and and 747 00:28:41,650 --> 00:28:39,950 we'll keep moving forward you know we 748 00:28:43,630 --> 00:28:41,660 got told that that shuttle would be no 749 00:28:45,340 --> 00:28:43,640 longer available to service station that 750 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:45,350 was tough to figure out how to make all 751 00:28:49,299 --> 00:28:47,690 that work we think we've got plans there 752 00:28:51,220 --> 00:28:49,309 we're going to count on commercial cargo 753 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:51,230 there's still some learning that will 754 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:52,610 occur through that so I think there's 755 00:28:56,409 --> 00:28:54,410 lots of challenges coming but the 756 00:28:58,570 --> 00:28:56,419 important thing is to just stay focused 757 00:29:01,870 --> 00:28:58,580 realize now that potential for research 758 00:29:04,659 --> 00:29:01,880 to work internationally to gain and push 759 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:04,669 that research forward okay I'm going to 760 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:06,530 ask one more question before seeing if 761 00:29:11,020 --> 00:29:09,650 the audience has any questions the what 762 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:11,030 is your for the next we've gone ten 763 00:29:14,049 --> 00:29:13,130 years is ten more you know the space 764 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:14,059 station supposed to fly for at least 765 00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:16,250 another ten what is your hope for the 766 00:29:20,140 --> 00:29:18,559 next decade for the what's the biggest 767 00:29:22,060 --> 00:29:20,150 accomplishment going to be in the years 768 00:29:24,310 --> 00:29:22,070 to come would you say each probably has 769 00:29:26,970 --> 00:29:24,320 a different opinion mark yeah I'll take 770 00:29:31,450 --> 00:29:26,980 a start at that because I can see two 771 00:29:34,180 --> 00:29:31,460 major achievements ahead of us this is a 772 00:29:36,399 --> 00:29:34,190 fantastic platform for doing technology 773 00:29:37,659 --> 00:29:36,409 development and demonstration and we've 774 00:29:40,630 --> 00:29:37,669 never had anything like it before 775 00:29:43,899 --> 00:29:40,640 available to us so I think we have the 776 00:29:45,549 --> 00:29:43,909 opportunity to use it to develop our 777 00:29:47,260 --> 00:29:45,559 next generation systems I mean we're 778 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:47,270 doing that already today with the 779 00:29:51,940 --> 00:29:49,130 onboard systems like the regenerative 780 00:29:54,460 --> 00:29:51,950 Equus but there's tremendous potential 781 00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:54,470 available to do that and then the second 782 00:30:00,070 --> 00:29:57,200 area the scientific potential as science 783 00:30:04,060 --> 00:30:00,080 is a slow process I mean we are just now 784 00:30:06,220 --> 00:30:04,070 seen results from 10 years ago that were 785 00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:06,230 conducted on shuttle missions that are 786 00:30:10,930 --> 00:30:08,950 turning into products and companies 787 00:30:13,510 --> 00:30:10,940 profitable companies that were being 788 00:30:14,890 --> 00:30:13,520 formed well tell one short story just 789 00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:14,900 because a lot of people may not be aware 790 00:30:20,620 --> 00:30:17,840 of it but just last month Apple computer 791 00:30:24,250 --> 00:30:20,630 bought the exclusive worldwide patent 792 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:24,260 rights for liquid metals which were 793 00:30:28,750 --> 00:30:26,570 originally discovered on the space 794 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:28,760 shuttle in 1997 doing thermo physical 795 00:30:33,850 --> 00:30:31,370 property measurements by a p.i at 796 00:30:34,899 --> 00:30:33,860 Caltech and it's not generally well 797 00:30:38,169 --> 00:30:34,909 known but 798 00:30:40,509 --> 00:30:38,179 it's a significant finding and in some 799 00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:40,519 places they characterize liquid metals 800 00:30:45,099 --> 00:30:42,559 as being input as important as plastics 801 00:30:46,989 --> 00:30:45,109 were when they were placed steel I think 802 00:30:49,859 --> 00:30:46,999 we have the opportunity to make more 803 00:30:53,529 --> 00:30:49,869 contributions like that in the ten years 804 00:30:55,810 --> 00:30:53,539 then as folks have said this is a very 805 00:30:57,729 --> 00:30:55,820 capable platform it can be used for many 806 00:31:00,339 --> 00:30:57,739 different things so my hope for the 807 00:31:02,259 --> 00:31:00,349 future is we fully utilize it we use it 808 00:31:03,820 --> 00:31:02,269 in many different ways I think it's 809 00:31:06,330 --> 00:31:03,830 really hard to predict what the research 810 00:31:08,919 --> 00:31:06,340 will show that's a process of discovery 811 00:31:11,409 --> 00:31:08,929 we have a lot of things we can do on 812 00:31:14,349 --> 00:31:11,419 station to prepare for exploration and 813 00:31:17,499 --> 00:31:14,359 we really ought to be doing that I think 814 00:31:21,039 --> 00:31:17,509 that this wallet is in low Earth orbit 815 00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:21,049 it is a foot toward a step towards going 816 00:31:25,629 --> 00:31:24,080 out beyond low-earth orbit and so we 817 00:31:28,419 --> 00:31:25,639 really ought to take advantage of that 818 00:31:31,239 --> 00:31:28,429 and we have such a strong partnership I 819 00:31:33,700 --> 00:31:31,249 would like to see us use this really to 820 00:31:36,519 --> 00:31:33,710 help build the continued partnership for 821 00:31:38,289 --> 00:31:36,529 going beyond working together figuring 822 00:31:41,139 --> 00:31:38,299 out what are those next steps for 823 00:31:45,159 --> 00:31:41,149 exploration and using station to do that 824 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:45,169 to demonstrate it like it's going to get 825 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:53,690 repetitive right the I edit this is the 826 00:31:57,820 --> 00:31:56,450 place we have to learn and we've had 827 00:32:00,430 --> 00:31:57,830 that validated now that we're going to 828 00:32:02,379 --> 00:32:00,440 keep flying the space station in and 829 00:32:04,629 --> 00:32:02,389 this is you know we've learned so much 830 00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:04,639 already just about how we operate in 831 00:32:08,499 --> 00:32:06,289 space things that we never planned in 832 00:32:10,359 --> 00:32:08,509 the program things that we never really 833 00:32:13,060 --> 00:32:10,369 thought we're going to accomplish even 834 00:32:15,999 --> 00:32:13,070 to just basics of maintaining this this 835 00:32:18,849 --> 00:32:16,009 facility are all things that we have to 836 00:32:20,799 --> 00:32:18,859 be able to do is we go further out so it 837 00:32:23,469 --> 00:32:20,809 is going to be the platform that drives 838 00:32:25,239 --> 00:32:23,479 us an exploration and we are going to be 839 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:25,249 in a constrained environment so we're 840 00:32:29,289 --> 00:32:26,690 going to be using everything that we 841 00:32:31,930 --> 00:32:29,299 have today to build from we where we are 842 00:32:35,049 --> 00:32:31,940 out into exploration space station is 843 00:32:37,299 --> 00:32:35,059 going to be a critical part of that and 844 00:32:38,979 --> 00:32:37,309 I guess I would just add that a really 845 00:32:41,229 --> 00:32:38,989 consider station a platform for 846 00:32:42,969 --> 00:32:41,239 discovery and and if but in a whole 847 00:32:44,829 --> 00:32:42,979 variety of different areas that some of 848 00:32:47,049 --> 00:32:44,839 the scientific areas that mark talks 849 00:32:48,700 --> 00:32:47,059 about you know we were able to recently 850 00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:48,710 activate the sabatier system 851 00:32:53,110 --> 00:32:51,110 which is an experiment in us and no in a 852 00:32:54,580 --> 00:32:53,120 new way of procuring hardware we didn't 853 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:54,590 pay for the development of the hardware 854 00:32:57,970 --> 00:32:56,450 for the first time we let a contractor 855 00:33:01,120 --> 00:32:57,980 pay for the development of the hardware 856 00:33:04,029 --> 00:33:01,130 and then they only receive payments if 857 00:33:05,710 --> 00:33:04,039 the device generates water for us we did 858 00:33:07,779 --> 00:33:05,720 that without any NASA involvement they 859 00:33:10,330 --> 00:33:07,789 did all the design development on there 860 00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:10,340 on their own it fit well because we had 861 00:33:13,779 --> 00:33:12,080 done a lot of pre research on the NASA 862 00:33:15,490 --> 00:33:13,789 site so we knew what the interfaces were 863 00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:15,500 in a technical risk was something that a 864 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:17,510 contractor could essentially pick up and 865 00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:19,610 go operate so so station is already 866 00:33:23,139 --> 00:33:21,200 proven itself as a platform for 867 00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:23,149 discovery and new ways of contracting 868 00:33:27,370 --> 00:33:24,799 and away new ways of doing development 869 00:33:29,019 --> 00:33:27,380 the partnership has published a very 870 00:33:30,549 --> 00:33:29,029 nice lessons learned document where I 871 00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:30,559 asked each one of the partners to think 872 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:32,809 about exploration and what lesson did 873 00:33:37,510 --> 00:33:35,210 you learn as an individual country for 874 00:33:39,159 --> 00:33:37,520 the way we should do exploration and we 875 00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:39,169 got a very nice document of the 876 00:33:42,610 --> 00:33:40,880 partnership pulling together to go do 877 00:33:44,730 --> 00:33:42,620 that and then we've also used the 878 00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:44,740 partnership recently to put together the 879 00:33:49,389 --> 00:33:46,880 basis of an international docking 880 00:33:52,060 --> 00:33:49,399 standard so i use the partners to work 881 00:33:54,970 --> 00:33:52,070 together to go essentially put together 882 00:33:57,130 --> 00:33:54,980 the specifications to allow spacecraft 883 00:33:59,080 --> 00:33:57,140 to dock not a specific design but just 884 00:34:01,029 --> 00:33:59,090 the standard so what's the basic 885 00:34:02,649 --> 00:34:01,039 diameter what's the basic hook force 886 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:02,659 what's the basic loading what's the 887 00:34:07,389 --> 00:34:04,490 mechanism that allows for soft capture 888 00:34:08,980 --> 00:34:07,399 etc but we're not specifying a design so 889 00:34:10,270 --> 00:34:08,990 then individual countries can go ahead 890 00:34:12,220 --> 00:34:10,280 and then if they meet this standard 891 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:12,230 we'll have compatibility to go doc 892 00:34:16,659 --> 00:34:14,690 things so the station is provided a 893 00:34:19,419 --> 00:34:16,669 multilateral environment so where we can 894 00:34:21,550 --> 00:34:19,429 put together and work as a small group 895 00:34:22,930 --> 00:34:21,560 to put some new standards out there that 896 00:34:24,970 --> 00:34:22,940 maybe the standards that will be used 897 00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:24,980 for exploration systems in the future so 898 00:34:29,770 --> 00:34:27,679 so there's a tremendous amount of 899 00:34:31,419 --> 00:34:29,780 potential to discover new things from a 900 00:34:33,460 --> 00:34:31,429 technology standpoint from a research 901 00:34:35,589 --> 00:34:33,470 standpoint from a contracting standpoint 902 00:34:37,540 --> 00:34:35,599 and from a way of doing new system 903 00:34:39,490 --> 00:34:37,550 standards for new systems needed for 904 00:34:41,050 --> 00:34:39,500 exploration systems in the future so I 905 00:34:42,730 --> 00:34:41,060 think there's a lot of things we 906 00:34:43,839 --> 00:34:42,740 shouldn't constrain ourselves just keep 907 00:34:46,089 --> 00:34:43,849 looking forward to keep challenging 908 00:34:48,750 --> 00:34:46,099 ourselves to do new things and we'll see 909 00:34:50,829 --> 00:34:48,760 what we can get in the next ten years 910 00:34:52,119 --> 00:34:50,839 okay thanks let's see if there's any 911 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:52,129 questions from the audience for the 912 00:35:00,510 --> 00:34:59,190 out there in the back you've all done a 913 00:35:02,250 --> 00:35:00,520 really good job of pointing out the 914 00:35:06,990 --> 00:35:02,260 challenges that we've had and dealing 915 00:35:08,850 --> 00:35:07,000 with the different partners one of the 916 00:35:10,980 --> 00:35:08,860 other major challenges I think that 917 00:35:13,170 --> 00:35:10,990 we've run into our that we have is 918 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:13,180 perhaps dealing with that other those 919 00:35:16,970 --> 00:35:15,610 two other big areas the engineering 920 00:35:19,470 --> 00:35:16,980 community and the research community 921 00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:19,480 wondering if you could if you could 922 00:35:23,970 --> 00:35:21,760 share what you think have been the major 923 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:23,980 obstacles in dealing across those two 924 00:35:27,780 --> 00:35:25,690 populations as well as some of the major 925 00:35:30,770 --> 00:35:27,790 accomplishments that have occurred as a 926 00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:30,780 result of those two working together 927 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:33,310 I'll have to answer that one John I 928 00:35:36,780 --> 00:35:35,290 think I spent the last 25 years working 929 00:35:40,410 --> 00:35:36,790 on the boundary between those two 930 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:40,420 communities both of them have advantages 931 00:35:44,910 --> 00:35:42,130 and disadvantages and the positions they 932 00:35:47,820 --> 00:35:44,920 take and success comes when they work 933 00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:47,830 together you know that we've gone a long 934 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:51,910 way over the past 25 years probably most 935 00:35:57,390 --> 00:35:55,090 emblematic of that is the fact that we 936 00:35:59,130 --> 00:35:57,400 delayed much of the utilization in order 937 00:36:01,200 --> 00:35:59,140 to complete the assembly process that 938 00:36:03,170 --> 00:36:01,210 was an extremely controversial issue 939 00:36:05,310 --> 00:36:03,180 that was even debated in the 940 00:36:07,590 --> 00:36:05,320 Congressional hallways back in the early 941 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:07,600 90s but you know when I look back on in 942 00:36:12,660 --> 00:36:09,850 retrospect it was the right thing to do 943 00:36:14,970 --> 00:36:12,670 because now we've got a completed Space 944 00:36:17,700 --> 00:36:14,980 Station we didn't put it at risk during 945 00:36:20,070 --> 00:36:17,710 that assembly phase and were positioned 946 00:36:22,050 --> 00:36:20,080 to have a decade a useful utilization 947 00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:22,060 coming out of it and i think the 948 00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:24,400 research team distributed across the 949 00:36:29,460 --> 00:36:27,520 nasa centers as well as out in the 950 00:36:32,070 --> 00:36:29,470 academic and the industrial community 951 00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:32,080 are willing to step forward now that we 952 00:36:36,750 --> 00:36:34,510 have the completed Space Station so I 953 00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:36,760 see the next ten years as being nothing 954 00:36:47,740 --> 00:36:42,400 but opportunity for us get a questions 955 00:36:56,190 --> 00:36:50,170 what is the likelihood that private 956 00:37:02,370 --> 00:36:59,280 we're we've got it for cargo delivery 957 00:37:05,250 --> 00:37:02,380 where we've issued some fixed price 958 00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:05,260 contracts with orbital and SpaceX to 959 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:07,119 deliver cargo to space station so 960 00:37:11,190 --> 00:37:08,770 they're going to be a private entity 961 00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:11,200 that will bring cargo for us to space 962 00:37:16,319 --> 00:37:13,510 station under a contract to NASA so I 963 00:37:19,829 --> 00:37:16,329 think they're deck pieces is clearly 964 00:37:21,450 --> 00:37:19,839 there through the National Lab mark can 965 00:37:23,550 --> 00:37:21,460 talk a little bit about that but I think 966 00:37:24,780 --> 00:37:23,560 there'll be some some opportunities for 967 00:37:26,250 --> 00:37:24,790 commercial companies in fact there are 968 00:37:28,230 --> 00:37:26,260 some now that are actually even 969 00:37:30,510 --> 00:37:28,240 utilizing station for some research and 970 00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:30,520 we need to figure out more ways of 971 00:37:36,839 --> 00:37:33,730 letting letting folks go ahead and use 972 00:37:39,930 --> 00:37:36,849 station and Mark you my wife yeah we 973 00:37:42,150 --> 00:37:39,940 began at work actually ten years ago 974 00:37:44,839 --> 00:37:42,160 working partnerships out with private 975 00:37:47,490 --> 00:37:44,849 firms for even use of the spacecraft and 976 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:47,500 and now the assembly is done we're going 977 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:49,210 to be growing that whole area I mean 978 00:37:54,270 --> 00:37:50,890 most people are familiar i think with 979 00:37:56,970 --> 00:37:54,280 the fact that we're literally just a few 980 00:37:59,310 --> 00:37:56,980 weeks away from announcing a competitive 981 00:38:01,349 --> 00:37:59,320 procurement to establish a cooperative 982 00:38:04,140 --> 00:38:01,359 agreement with a nonprofit organization 983 00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:04,150 to manage uses of the space station by 984 00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:07,119 organizations other than NASA so I think 985 00:38:12,150 --> 00:38:08,640 you're going to see all that activity 986 00:38:16,050 --> 00:38:12,160 ramping up in the future and we've got 987 00:38:18,660 --> 00:38:16,060 the perfect platform to do it with you 988 00:38:20,339 --> 00:38:18,670 know I think it's also interesting to to 989 00:38:21,630 --> 00:38:20,349 see how we got pushed to do some things 990 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:21,640 a little differently than we would have 991 00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:23,290 probably on our own like the whole space 992 00:38:27,450 --> 00:38:25,510 flight participant thing you know the 993 00:38:30,059 --> 00:38:27,460 Russians were very aggressive in getting 994 00:38:32,069 --> 00:38:30,069 selling so you seats to get space flight 995 00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:32,079 participants up the station I don't 996 00:38:36,180 --> 00:38:34,000 think we NASA would have done that on 997 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:36,190 our own but then the Russians have kind 998 00:38:39,859 --> 00:38:38,410 of pushed this in an area that that I 999 00:38:43,050 --> 00:38:39,869 think there's some potential there that 1000 00:38:45,059 --> 00:38:43,060 it moves forward even in their control 1001 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:45,069 center they have a lot of if you look at 1002 00:38:48,510 --> 00:38:46,810 the you know the bottom floor below 1003 00:38:50,309 --> 00:38:48,520 their screen there's advertisements from 1004 00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:50,319 all the major vendors out there that 1005 00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:51,730 provide equipment to their control 1006 00:38:56,490 --> 00:38:54,250 center that's a little far for us to go 1007 00:39:00,720 --> 00:38:56,500 but but there they somehow have gather 1008 00:39:03,150 --> 00:39:00,730 are captured the maybe the capitalistic 1009 00:39:05,550 --> 00:39:03,160 process is better than we have in a 1010 00:39:06,780 --> 00:39:05,560 sense so we again need to learn from 1011 00:39:09,100 --> 00:39:06,790 them but there's a there's a real 1012 00:39:12,910 --> 00:39:09,110 advantage of doing things internet 1013 00:39:14,770 --> 00:39:12,920 and learning from others so we need to 1014 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:14,780 to see what works see what other 1015 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:16,130 countries are pushing see how they're 1016 00:39:20,050 --> 00:39:18,290 pursuing things and then likewise open 1017 00:39:21,580 --> 00:39:20,060 up our envelope a little bit to be a 1018 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:21,590 little more flexible than we would be 1019 00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:23,930 naturally so I think the partnership has 1020 00:39:27,790 --> 00:39:25,760 brought a unique dimension to us that 1021 00:39:29,020 --> 00:39:27,800 has really really helped us look in 1022 00:39:30,820 --> 00:39:29,030 different ways the way we think about 1023 00:39:33,070 --> 00:39:30,830 space flight and I think typically we 1024 00:39:34,990 --> 00:39:33,080 find the partners are each at different 1025 00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:35,000 points along that spectrum they all have 1026 00:39:40,930 --> 00:39:37,730 different views and and having to 1027 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:40,940 integrate all of that I think is even 1028 00:39:44,020 --> 00:39:42,530 more thoughtful than just having to look 1029 00:39:45,820 --> 00:39:44,030 at one extreme position or another 1030 00:39:49,090 --> 00:39:45,830 extreme position the recognition that 1031 00:39:55,630 --> 00:39:49,100 that we really are a continuum helps us 1032 00:39:57,340 --> 00:39:55,640 I think be open-minded my question is 1033 00:39:58,990 --> 00:39:57,350 for Bill but any of you all can answer 1034 00:40:01,660 --> 00:39:59,000 this it's well it's really interesting 1035 00:40:03,310 --> 00:40:01,670 to hear sort of your take on the spirit 1036 00:40:05,140 --> 00:40:03,320 of creativity and innovation that comes 1037 00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:05,150 about when you leave things sort of wide 1038 00:40:09,250 --> 00:40:07,730 open and let people sort of take 1039 00:40:11,530 --> 00:40:09,260 advantage of the open parameters you 1040 00:40:13,210 --> 00:40:11,540 spoke earlier to making sure that you 1041 00:40:15,010 --> 00:40:13,220 know in the future we have some of that 1042 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:15,020 ability with mo use and agreements that 1043 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:17,450 are really flexible so I was wondering 1044 00:40:22,180 --> 00:40:19,970 you said that at each stage of the 1045 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:22,190 station and the development you said 1046 00:40:27,220 --> 00:40:25,010 that you know things were things happen 1047 00:40:29,470 --> 00:40:27,230 that you know made the space station be 1048 00:40:31,330 --> 00:40:29,480 able to be used not as designed what 1049 00:40:32,740 --> 00:40:31,340 what were some of those things that you 1050 00:40:35,410 --> 00:40:32,750 know came about as a result of that 1051 00:40:37,510 --> 00:40:35,420 spirit of innovation creativity that you 1052 00:40:39,130 --> 00:40:37,520 really never thought would be used or 1053 00:40:43,690 --> 00:40:39,140 done on the space station that created a 1054 00:40:49,370 --> 00:40:47,660 yeah why we never anticipated the 1055 00:40:51,740 --> 00:40:49,380 Russians bringing tourists to the space 1056 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:51,750 station and obviously the very first one 1057 00:41:00,350 --> 00:40:56,370 was a pretty dramatic moment in time but 1058 00:41:04,370 --> 00:41:00,360 we became used to it and it didn't cause 1059 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:04,380 us any problems ultimately yeah I would 1060 00:41:10,060 --> 00:41:07,410 get you know I just see the crew with 1061 00:41:12,530 --> 00:41:10,070 clown noses in space was probably a 1062 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:12,540 unique thing that I would not have ever 1063 00:41:19,940 --> 00:41:16,890 envisioned I would say we also did an 1064 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:19,950 activity with the band u2 throughout the 1065 00:41:24,890 --> 00:41:22,530 world and they featured the space 1066 00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:24,900 station crew and several venues and in 1067 00:41:29,780 --> 00:41:27,900 various various countries around the 1068 00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:29,790 world and that was an interesting 1069 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:32,700 experience to be called by the devant 1070 00:41:37,310 --> 00:41:35,610 personally and and congratulated on the 1071 00:41:39,590 --> 00:41:37,320 crew talking to them at some concert 1072 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:39,600 some place which was very interesting 1073 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:41,850 and unique which I would have not have 1074 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:45,450 guessed you know developing the combined 1075 00:41:51,620 --> 00:41:47,130 operational load-bearing external 1076 00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:51,630 resistive treadmill for tougher for the 1077 00:41:56,270 --> 00:41:54,000 note 3 tranquility was a unique 1078 00:41:59,690 --> 00:41:56,280 experience for us you know we put 1079 00:42:02,540 --> 00:41:59,700 together a very well thought-out media 1080 00:42:04,430 --> 00:42:02,550 plan to get the name to node contest 1081 00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:04,440 with all the right legal arguments in 1082 00:42:08,180 --> 00:42:05,730 there that allowed us to name it 1083 00:42:09,770 --> 00:42:08,190 whatever we wanted to name it and then 1084 00:42:11,390 --> 00:42:09,780 we kind of lost control of the whole 1085 00:42:14,290 --> 00:42:11,400 process when Xena the warrior princess 1086 00:42:16,940 --> 00:42:14,300 was winning for a while and and then 1087 00:42:19,100 --> 00:42:16,950 myyearbook kind of came in later and 1088 00:42:20,660 --> 00:42:19,110 then the colbert show took over so and 1089 00:42:23,870 --> 00:42:20,670 then we determined that it didn't matter 1090 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:23,880 what our legal statement said people in 1091 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:25,530 general were going to dictate what how 1092 00:42:28,820 --> 00:42:27,330 he named the note and what criteria were 1093 00:42:30,770 --> 00:42:28,830 used and even though we had the legal 1094 00:42:32,780 --> 00:42:30,780 authority to do things we then had to 1095 00:42:36,020 --> 00:42:32,790 get kind of creative to come up with the 1096 00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:36,030 the combined operational load-bearing 1097 00:42:39,830 --> 00:42:37,680 external resistive treadmill so we 1098 00:42:42,020 --> 00:42:39,840 learned a lot through all that so I so I 1099 00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:42,030 think that the thing is by by 1100 00:42:46,370 --> 00:42:44,250 challenging folks to do things and think 1101 00:42:48,620 --> 00:42:46,380 in different ways you get different 1102 00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:48,630 results and and you know I've gotten a 1103 00:42:52,820 --> 00:42:50,730 lot of positive comments we've exposed 1104 00:42:55,310 --> 00:42:52,830 station to a broader community by doing 1105 00:42:57,020 --> 00:42:55,320 things along those lines and and I think 1106 00:42:57,300 --> 00:42:57,030 it gets some of our people excited you 1107 00:42:58,710 --> 00:42:57,310 can't 1108 00:43:01,530 --> 00:42:58,720 do too much of that but you got to 1109 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:01,540 figure out where the serious scientific 1110 00:43:05,010 --> 00:43:03,130 work is done and then where there's a 1111 00:43:07,380 --> 00:43:05,020 little bit of a lighter side that keeps 1112 00:43:10,140 --> 00:43:07,390 things moving forward so bill talked 1113 00:43:13,290 --> 00:43:10,150 about the body a as well and you know 1114 00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:13,300 when he and I were commiserating even 10 1115 00:43:20,570 --> 00:43:16,240 years ago or 15 years ago we never would 1116 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:20,580 have had a discussion about buying water 1117 00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:23,170 you know not buying the device but 1118 00:43:28,650 --> 00:43:27,040 literally buying water and so as we have 1119 00:43:30,660 --> 00:43:28,660 evolved with the space station as has 1120 00:43:33,210 --> 00:43:30,670 we've understood the maturity of all the 1121 00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:33,220 systems he really can do very very 1122 00:43:38,010 --> 00:43:34,960 different things if you keep your mind 1123 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:38,020 open to it I don't think anybody ever 1124 00:43:42,690 --> 00:43:40,690 anticipated this global mixed fleet that 1125 00:43:46,050 --> 00:43:42,700 we're working with today either when we 1126 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:46,060 started this program before the Russians 1127 00:43:51,210 --> 00:43:48,490 were on board it was all shuttle based 1128 00:43:53,580 --> 00:43:51,220 transportation and it was designed to be 1129 00:43:56,910 --> 00:43:53,590 serviced by the shuttle but then the 1130 00:43:58,380 --> 00:43:56,920 European ATV the Japanese a TV then the 1131 00:44:01,770 --> 00:43:58,390 Russian partnership with the progress 1132 00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:01,780 it's a really a pretty impressive global 1133 00:44:06,990 --> 00:44:03,730 fleet of vehicles that we've got coming 1134 00:44:08,820 --> 00:44:07,000 and going today and more to come if you 1135 00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:08,830 look next year I think we have 17 1136 00:44:13,620 --> 00:44:11,250 flights to space station next year and 1137 00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:13,630 two of those are shuttle and then the 1138 00:44:18,540 --> 00:44:16,480 rest are our ATV and progress and Soyuz 1139 00:44:20,430 --> 00:44:18,550 and also some of our commercial cargo 1140 00:44:23,610 --> 00:44:20,440 providers will be there next year too so 1141 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:23,620 so we've really created a much more 1142 00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:26,050 dynamic and diverse transportation plan 1143 00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:28,510 than I think we ever envisioned little 1144 00:44:39,380 --> 00:44:36,890 we have a lot of aging infrastructure 1145 00:44:41,660 --> 00:44:39,390 down here on the ground and some aging 1146 00:44:43,990 --> 00:44:41,670 bodies as well I have an eight-year-old 1147 00:44:46,310 --> 00:44:44,000 at home though that would be interested 1148 00:44:48,770 --> 00:44:46,320 someday and flying on the space station 1149 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:48,780 what's the likelihood of the space 1150 00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:51,810 stations having a unit of further 1151 00:45:00,590 --> 00:44:56,160 extended period of operations beyond the 1152 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:00,600 2020 time frame that's yours well we've 1153 00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:02,970 been looking we go to 2020 and then I 1154 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:05,250 think we've looked at going I think all 1155 00:45:10,310 --> 00:45:08,130 the way out to 20 28 and and that's 1156 00:45:12,500 --> 00:45:10,320 based on I think a 30 year lifetime from 1157 00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:12,510 when the first module was was taken up 1158 00:45:16,130 --> 00:45:14,250 so so we're looking at that to see if 1159 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:16,140 there's any technical considerations I 1160 00:45:19,670 --> 00:45:18,330 think that the bigger driver is not so 1161 00:45:21,980 --> 00:45:19,680 much to hardware in the robustness of 1162 00:45:23,780 --> 00:45:21,990 the hardware but do we find a real need 1163 00:45:25,670 --> 00:45:23,790 for station in a real compelling 1164 00:45:28,310 --> 00:45:25,680 research environment a real commercial 1165 00:45:30,050 --> 00:45:28,320 aspect debt station is viable for and 1166 00:45:31,970 --> 00:45:30,060 that will keep space station flying if 1167 00:45:33,350 --> 00:45:31,980 we can see that that other piece but i 1168 00:45:35,930 --> 00:45:33,360 think the physical hardware could be 1169 00:45:38,330 --> 00:45:35,940 there until until 20 28 or may be 1170 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:38,340 upgraded or pieces could could be it 1171 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:40,650 could be done off of station but i think 1172 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:41,970 our challenge is in the next couple 1173 00:45:45,110 --> 00:45:44,010 years is just kind of submit that future 1174 00:45:46,940 --> 00:45:45,120 and figure out how we can really 1175 00:45:48,590 --> 00:45:46,950 effectively utilize station for 1176 00:45:50,090 --> 00:45:48,600 exploration and and other activities 1177 00:45:51,590 --> 00:45:50,100 that some of the things mark talked 1178 00:45:54,230 --> 00:45:51,600 about you know if we can put together 1179 00:45:56,810 --> 00:45:54,240 some spacecraft from station deploy them 1180 00:45:59,030 --> 00:45:56,820 to go different places that's a pretty 1181 00:46:01,520 --> 00:45:59,040 exciting future you know how can we use 1182 00:46:04,070 --> 00:46:01,530 station and more of a testbed mode we've 1183 00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:04,080 got a hyperspectral imager onboard 1184 00:46:07,820 --> 00:46:06,000 station which is really nice that was 1185 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:07,830 put together by the Naval Research Lab 1186 00:46:12,410 --> 00:46:10,890 and a very short period of time it's not 1187 00:46:14,810 --> 00:46:12,420 an operational instrument but it's a 1188 00:46:16,100 --> 00:46:14,820 great test bed to look at ways that they 1189 00:46:18,290 --> 00:46:16,110 can be creative and putting together 1190 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:18,300 hardware so we need to keep reaching out 1191 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:20,130 to these other folks that can utilize 1192 00:46:23,210 --> 00:46:21,810 station and show that station is really 1193 00:46:26,030 --> 00:46:23,220 viable and then I think it could be 1194 00:46:27,650 --> 00:46:26,040 there potentially for future future 1195 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:27,660 reviews yeah and gross touch on 1196 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:29,010 something we really didn't mention in 1197 00:46:34,250 --> 00:46:31,650 that freedom to ISS transition freedom 1198 00:46:39,110 --> 00:46:34,260 actually had a 30 year design life that 1199 00:46:40,820 --> 00:46:39,120 we you know drop down to save some money 1200 00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:40,830 and and try to do things a little 1201 00:46:45,620 --> 00:46:43,440 different in that transition but most of 1202 00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:45,630 the designs were set on the US side so 1203 00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:47,250 we really didn't change how we were 1204 00:46:50,359 --> 00:46:47,730 building 1205 00:46:52,609 --> 00:46:50,369 the components of the space station we 1206 00:46:54,170 --> 00:46:52,619 probably simplified the test program 1207 00:46:56,150 --> 00:46:54,180 because we didn't have to demonstrate as 1208 00:46:58,130 --> 00:46:56,160 long a lifetime and there were a couple 1209 00:47:00,710 --> 00:46:58,140 sticky problems about maintenance that 1210 00:47:03,530 --> 00:47:00,720 we didn't have to solve that you know 1211 00:47:05,180 --> 00:47:03,540 will still face over time but by and 1212 00:47:08,330 --> 00:47:05,190 large the systems we're still defined 1213 00:47:10,670 --> 00:47:08,340 for that much longer lifetime the 1214 00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:10,680 benefit cost point that bill breaks do 1215 00:47:15,310 --> 00:47:12,240 brings up is really important because 1216 00:47:17,359 --> 00:47:15,320 that will ultimately determine it and 1217 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:17,369 everybody should know that they're there 1218 00:47:22,460 --> 00:47:19,650 is a real opportunity to reach a tipping 1219 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:22,470 point here in the next five years or so 1220 00:47:27,410 --> 00:47:24,330 where these laboratories become so 1221 00:47:29,030 --> 00:47:27,420 productive that they'll draw users to 1222 00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:29,040 them from the private sector from the 1223 00:47:32,180 --> 00:47:30,960 government sector from all the way 1224 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:32,190 around and that that's going to change 1225 00:47:36,140 --> 00:47:34,530 the whole prescription by the end of the 1226 00:47:38,450 --> 00:47:36,150 decade and provided that we get the 1227 00:47:40,849 --> 00:47:38,460 transportation resources in place in the 1228 00:47:46,060 --> 00:47:40,859 in the near future there's every reason 1229 00:47:53,180 --> 00:47:50,990 I just add one thing you know when I sit 1230 00:47:55,580 --> 00:47:53,190 here today and I kind of reflect back 1231 00:47:58,280 --> 00:47:55,590 and I look at this picture behind us and 1232 00:48:01,400 --> 00:47:58,290 all this is in orbit it's some kind of 1233 00:48:03,530 --> 00:48:01,410 miracle I mean we had so many 1234 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:03,540 opportunities along the way that this 1235 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:05,970 Hardware wouldn't be in orbit it's it's 1236 00:48:11,780 --> 00:48:08,970 phenomenal and so I think there's no I 1237 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:11,790 mean if the Spirit is set right and we 1238 00:48:15,530 --> 00:48:13,890 keep the longer-term vision and I think 1239 00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:15,540 you clearly see it in a Russian culture 1240 00:48:19,580 --> 00:48:17,730 that they you know they'll get diverted 1241 00:48:21,710 --> 00:48:19,590 whichever which way they can but they 1242 00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:21,720 keep focused on some long-term goal and 1243 00:48:25,580 --> 00:48:23,280 I think if we can keep that long-term 1244 00:48:27,830 --> 00:48:25,590 goal there's no limit to what we can 1245 00:48:29,540 --> 00:48:27,840 accomplish in we really are working 1246 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:29,550 better together multilaterally there 1247 00:48:33,710 --> 00:48:31,410 were times when I thought we might not 1248 00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:33,720 ever work together multilaterally I mean 1249 00:48:37,340 --> 00:48:35,730 we didn't want to exchange data we 1250 00:48:39,770 --> 00:48:37,350 didn't want to talk about things you 1251 00:48:42,109 --> 00:48:39,780 know we did US air samples the Russians 1252 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:42,119 did russian air samples and we would get 1253 00:48:45,830 --> 00:48:43,890 two separate sets of data about what the 1254 00:48:48,109 --> 00:48:45,840 same atmosphere really was and they 1255 00:48:49,490 --> 00:48:48,119 would not share data back and forth and 1256 00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:49,500 then when we had Columbia we had no 1257 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:51,359 choice but to share samples and actually 1258 00:48:54,170 --> 00:48:52,770 force researchers to look at other 1259 00:48:57,980 --> 00:48:54,180 researchers how they actually do 1260 00:49:00,349 --> 00:48:57,990 analysis so I think we need to just 1261 00:49:01,580 --> 00:49:00,359 recognize that it's hard to predict the 1262 00:49:03,530 --> 00:49:01,590 future but if you 1263 00:49:05,060 --> 00:49:03,540 focused and you keep moving and you keep 1264 00:49:07,820 --> 00:49:05,070 the right vision you can accomplish 1265 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:07,830 amazing things and this is truly an 1266 00:49:12,500 --> 00:49:10,050 amazing engineering feat that's here and 1267 00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:12,510 now our challenge is to take that same 1268 00:49:16,130 --> 00:49:14,400 zeal and put it into the research arena 1269 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:16,140 and to see if we can reach that tipping 1270 00:49:20,270 --> 00:49:18,090 point that mark talks about where this 1271 00:49:22,370 --> 00:49:20,280 thing is is really a benefit to us it 1272 00:49:24,110 --> 00:49:22,380 shows us that space has a real benefit 1273 00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:24,120 to everyday people on the earth and 1274 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:26,250 their unique research environment of 1275 00:49:30,110 --> 00:49:28,170 space station pays dividends to the 1276 00:49:32,450 --> 00:49:30,120 elderly and pays dividends to our people 1277 00:49:34,100 --> 00:49:32,460 here on the earth as well allows us to 1278 00:49:36,650 --> 00:49:34,110 learn how to explore and go beyond 1279 00:49:41,210 --> 00:49:36,660 low-earth orbit there was a reason that 1280 00:49:43,390 --> 00:49:41,220 first lab was named destiny you know 1281 00:49:46,310 --> 00:49:43,400 looking at the room most people in here 1282 00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:46,320 work at NASA and have some sort of 1283 00:49:50,870 --> 00:49:47,760 interest in the National Space Station 1284 00:49:53,540 --> 00:49:50,880 but outside of this building and outside 1285 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:53,550 of the agency why does the space station 1286 00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:55,530 matter what would be what would you tell 1287 00:49:58,580 --> 00:49:56,970 someone that didn't even know what the 1288 00:50:03,580 --> 00:49:58,590 space station was why was important and 1289 00:50:06,500 --> 00:50:03,590 how can affect their lives any of you I 1290 00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:06,510 had a discussion years ago with a friend 1291 00:50:10,490 --> 00:50:08,160 of mine from from high school and I was 1292 00:50:14,030 --> 00:50:10,500 raised in a pretty small fairly rural 1293 00:50:15,950 --> 00:50:14,040 part of Northwest Pennsylvania and I was 1294 00:50:17,570 --> 00:50:15,960 describing the space station from kind 1295 00:50:20,060 --> 00:50:17,580 of all the challenge and hassles of the 1296 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:20,070 international partnership and and after 1297 00:50:24,530 --> 00:50:23,130 listen to me rant for a while I think 1298 00:50:25,730 --> 00:50:24,540 she summed it up pretty well when she 1299 00:50:27,970 --> 00:50:25,740 said oh so what you're really trying to 1300 00:50:31,370 --> 00:50:27,980 say is is it's just good for the globe 1301 00:50:33,020 --> 00:50:31,380 and from that partnership standpoint you 1302 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:33,030 know that's that's pretty much it it's 1303 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:35,370 good for the globe that that's what I 1304 00:50:39,470 --> 00:50:37,410 tell people this this is the largest 1305 00:50:42,620 --> 00:50:39,480 international cooperative endeavor and 1306 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:42,630 science and technology in history and we 1307 00:50:46,100 --> 00:50:44,490 have the results to prove that it can be 1308 00:50:48,980 --> 00:50:46,110 done and we're halfway through the 1309 00:50:52,550 --> 00:50:48,990 process the assembly is over and the 1310 00:50:54,830 --> 00:50:52,560 best ten years are in front of us and I 1311 00:50:57,770 --> 00:50:54,840 think the scientific research aspect is 1312 00:50:59,240 --> 00:50:57,780 also very intriguing to us that is Mark 1313 00:51:01,930 --> 00:50:59,250 said at the very beginning when you 1314 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:01,940 remove gravity from the equation 1315 00:51:09,740 --> 00:51:05,370 processes change and as a researcher you 1316 00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:09,750 want to look at a process with differing 1317 00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:11,520 variables or different constraints so to 1318 00:51:15,530 --> 00:51:13,200 remove gravity and then look at a 1319 00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:15,540 process can yield tremendous 1320 00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:17,250 new understandings that we haven't had 1321 00:51:21,350 --> 00:51:19,410 before so you know we know the immune 1322 00:51:23,900 --> 00:51:21,360 system does different things in zero-g 1323 00:51:25,340 --> 00:51:23,910 so we have a model that you know the 1324 00:51:27,380 --> 00:51:25,350 doctors have a model of how the immune 1325 00:51:29,410 --> 00:51:27,390 system operates and works but that's 1326 00:51:32,450 --> 00:51:29,420 based on seeing it through a 1g 1327 00:51:34,100 --> 00:51:32,460 influence you remove zero gravity then 1328 00:51:35,450 --> 00:51:34,110 that model mate doesn't hold up and 1329 00:51:36,830 --> 00:51:35,460 doesn't quite work right so you're going 1330 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:36,840 to end up with a better model of the 1331 00:51:39,890 --> 00:51:38,130 immune system which can pay real 1332 00:51:42,500 --> 00:51:39,900 benefits back to us here on earth so I 1333 00:51:44,300 --> 00:51:42,510 think there's there's a chance here that 1334 00:51:47,090 --> 00:51:44,310 we can gain some things and learn from 1335 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:47,100 space that this new environment this new 1336 00:51:51,410 --> 00:51:49,530 test environment just like any new place 1337 00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:51,420 you go you can learn more about things 1338 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:53,520 back on the earth I think you know one 1339 00:51:57,050 --> 00:51:55,050 of the Apollo astronauts said we went 1340 00:51:58,610 --> 00:51:57,060 all the way to the moon to learn more 1341 00:52:00,620 --> 00:51:58,620 about the earth you know and if you 1342 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:00,630 think about the lunar activities 1343 00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:02,010 probably some of the most compelling 1344 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:04,800 things r is the pictures of the you know 1345 00:52:08,690 --> 00:52:06,810 the earth rise from the moon is that's 1346 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:08,700 really changed our own perception of 1347 00:52:13,460 --> 00:52:11,010 what the earth is you know when you look 1348 00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:13,470 at the images from space station you 1349 00:52:16,700 --> 00:52:14,910 know I always look at that little thin 1350 00:52:18,140 --> 00:52:16,710 blue line that sits there in the 1351 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:18,150 background and that's our total 1352 00:52:22,220 --> 00:52:20,010 atmosphere that protects us and that we 1353 00:52:24,290 --> 00:52:22,230 live in and if that can't change your 1354 00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:24,300 perception of how we here on the earth 1355 00:52:28,850 --> 00:52:26,250 you know on this little blue marble 1356 00:52:31,910 --> 00:52:28,860 floating in space that's pretty dramatic 1357 00:52:34,550 --> 00:52:31,920 so I think again if we just keep our 1358 00:52:36,620 --> 00:52:34,560 eyes open keep our research moving steak 1359 00:52:38,540 --> 00:52:36,630 stay hungry keep looking at different 1360 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:38,550 things we can get tremendous benefit 1361 00:52:43,010 --> 00:52:40,770 from from space and space station and we 1362 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:43,020 need to we need to talk about it with 1363 00:52:47,300 --> 00:52:44,970 with folks get them excited about what 1364 00:52:49,340 --> 00:52:47,310 we're doing and and and let them 1365 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:49,350 understand of how they can participate 1366 00:52:52,910 --> 00:52:51,570 or how they can even contribute to some 1367 00:52:54,470 --> 00:52:52,920 of the things we're doing and we're 1368 00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:54,480 looking for new ways of doing that with 1369 00:52:58,550 --> 00:52:56,610 and I think there's a lot to be said for 1370 00:53:00,560 --> 00:52:58,560 the human element because we have many 1371 00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:00,570 different space programs and we see a 1372 00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:03,450 lot from space with all kinds of robotic 1373 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:05,760 spacecraft going throughout the solar 1374 00:53:11,510 --> 00:53:09,210 system but there is something about 1375 00:53:13,340 --> 00:53:11,520 sharing it with other people who've been 1376 00:53:15,530 --> 00:53:13,350 there who can describe it who can feel 1377 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:15,540 it who can tell us what it's really like 1378 00:53:21,860 --> 00:53:19,650 and and and that is very important for 1379 00:53:25,010 --> 00:53:21,870 us to understand what that environment 1380 00:53:27,170 --> 00:53:25,020 is you know we've had a series of these 1381 00:53:29,270 --> 00:53:27,180 these roundtable discussions about the 1382 00:53:31,370 --> 00:53:29,280 day Marshall Space Flight Center had one 1383 00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:31,380 Kenny Space Center and also Johnson 1384 00:53:36,260 --> 00:53:34,290 Space Center what about can you tell the 1385 00:53:38,090 --> 00:53:36,270 audience and the people watching what's 1386 00:53:40,130 --> 00:53:38,100 your unique perspective from 1387 00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:40,140 headquarters then maybe the other 1388 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:41,730 centers didn't have I know some of you 1389 00:53:44,930 --> 00:53:43,290 have worked in centers and also 1390 00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:44,940 headquarters I know there's a political 1391 00:53:47,630 --> 00:53:46,290 realm you have to deal with here in DC 1392 00:53:49,130 --> 00:53:47,640 which is a little different how is that 1393 00:53:52,700 --> 00:53:49,140 influenced and affected the National 1394 00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:52,710 Space Station or your job the political 1395 00:54:00,200 --> 00:53:56,640 element is huge and it's and it's not 1396 00:54:02,870 --> 00:54:00,210 just political in terms of our nation's 1397 00:54:04,250 --> 00:54:02,880 politics right it's but we've had that 1398 00:54:06,980 --> 00:54:04,260 as curse said there was the the one 1399 00:54:10,220 --> 00:54:06,990 point right in the summer of 92 where 1400 00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:10,230 the space station was almost cancelled 1401 00:54:18,170 --> 00:54:15,570 by one vote and having gone through and 1402 00:54:19,580 --> 00:54:18,180 no I mean I kind of laughed today right 1403 00:54:21,020 --> 00:54:19,590 people are talking about the nasa 1404 00:54:23,900 --> 00:54:21,030 authorization bill is being very 1405 00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:23,910 prescriptive about what kind of rocket 1406 00:54:30,410 --> 00:54:27,930 or capsule we should build yet in those 1407 00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:30,420 early space station days we were told we 1408 00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:32,130 were going to fly the lab before the 1409 00:54:38,450 --> 00:54:36,240 have 45 kilowatts of power half the 1410 00:54:40,580 --> 00:54:38,460 racks within the 10 to the minus 6 micro 1411 00:54:42,380 --> 00:54:40,590 g range right mark yeah there were a 1412 00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:42,390 whole dozen we in fact we called him 1413 00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:44,640 dick Mallos commandments that were 1414 00:54:53,180 --> 00:54:49,650 captured in law that we had to deal with 1415 00:54:54,650 --> 00:54:53,190 and so the the political environment for 1416 00:54:58,700 --> 00:54:54,660 Space Station has always been very 1417 00:55:00,320 --> 00:54:58,710 highly charged and then that reflects in 1418 00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:00,330 each of the partners not only has the 1419 00:55:04,940 --> 00:55:01,530 partners been an important part of 1420 00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:04,950 maintaining the base political base for 1421 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:06,450 the space station but they all have had 1422 00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:09,450 their unique politics as well and and I 1423 00:55:13,940 --> 00:55:11,040 know over the years I think all of us 1424 00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:13,950 have been to the different partners 1425 00:55:19,610 --> 00:55:17,040 talking not just to our counterparts but 1426 00:55:22,220 --> 00:55:19,620 to their political sides as well and 1427 00:55:24,590 --> 00:55:22,230 trying to continue to keep that 1428 00:55:27,830 --> 00:55:24,600 coalition strong yeah I think it's 1429 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:27,840 interesting how often we've had to work 1430 00:55:34,010 --> 00:55:31,530 with our partners to help re advocate 1431 00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:34,020 the program and we seem to each take our 1432 00:55:39,110 --> 00:55:36,720 turn as to when that when that comes up 1433 00:55:41,190 --> 00:55:39,120 in our budget or political cycle after 1434 00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:41,200 elections whatever 1435 00:55:46,050 --> 00:55:44,050 and so to see how how it works what 1436 00:55:47,730 --> 00:55:46,060 arguments are appropriate in all the 1437 00:55:50,490 --> 00:55:47,740 different political systems is is 1438 00:55:53,069 --> 00:55:50,500 interesting as the one that was the most 1439 00:55:56,339 --> 00:55:53,079 eye-opening for me from the Washington 1440 00:55:58,680 --> 00:55:56,349 Policy view is when I had to go up on 1441 00:56:00,750 --> 00:55:58,690 the hill and explain why we wanted an 1442 00:56:03,930 --> 00:56:00,760 exception in law to the Iran North Korea 1443 00:56:06,690 --> 00:56:03,940 Syria non-proliferation act why we 1444 00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:06,700 wanted to be able to have exchanges with 1445 00:56:11,970 --> 00:56:09,730 Russia why we were dependent on Soyuz 1446 00:56:14,069 --> 00:56:11,980 how did we get into that position why 1447 00:56:16,470 --> 00:56:14,079 was it important what was the value to 1448 00:56:19,020 --> 00:56:16,480 NASA and I had to go make that case to 1449 00:56:21,569 --> 00:56:19,030 people in foreign policy committees who 1450 00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:21,579 weren't space advocates didn't really 1451 00:56:26,339 --> 00:56:24,160 follow space weren't looking at it from 1452 00:56:29,490 --> 00:56:26,349 our program perspective but we're just 1453 00:56:32,839 --> 00:56:29,500 looking at it from a foreign policy 1454 00:56:34,859 --> 00:56:32,849 non-proliferation and perspective and 1455 00:56:36,930 --> 00:56:34,869 having to come up with a completely 1456 00:56:38,700 --> 00:56:36,940 different set of arguments that would be 1457 00:56:42,569 --> 00:56:38,710 compelling to them was quite an 1458 00:56:46,980 --> 00:56:42,579 interesting job to have I'm going to 1459 00:56:49,290 --> 00:56:46,990 train you for my hearing I think what's 1460 00:56:51,990 --> 00:56:49,300 what's kind of neat is when you see all 1461 00:56:54,059 --> 00:56:52,000 the different perspectives is we all 1462 00:56:55,710 --> 00:56:54,069 looked at the space station from our own 1463 00:56:57,839 --> 00:56:55,720 individual perspectives where we were 1464 00:56:59,490 --> 00:56:57,849 and even at the Centers and they're all 1465 00:57:01,230 --> 00:56:59,500 slightly different but we're all really 1466 00:57:03,329 --> 00:57:01,240 describing all the challenges each one 1467 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:03,339 of us individually faced they were all 1468 00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:05,770 different but each one of us worked 1469 00:57:08,970 --> 00:57:07,450 those challenges and pulled together and 1470 00:57:11,250 --> 00:57:08,980 i think is here heard the same thing 1471 00:57:12,660 --> 00:57:11,260 from the other centers today that they 1472 00:57:14,490 --> 00:57:12,670 also have a slightly different 1473 00:57:16,890 --> 00:57:14,500 perspective of where they were when as 1474 00:57:18,569 --> 00:57:16,900 they SAT through this thing sites it's 1475 00:57:20,579 --> 00:57:18,579 neat to get a chance to share and 1476 00:57:22,829 --> 00:57:20,589 understand and see how people saw this 1477 00:57:24,420 --> 00:57:22,839 this thing come together and it's it's 1478 00:57:26,339 --> 00:57:24,430 interesting it's very different 1479 00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:26,349 depending on where folks were sitting at 1480 00:57:31,230 --> 00:57:29,770 what time we ate one more question I 1481 00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:31,240 think I've got for you guys it's it's 10 1482 00:57:35,460 --> 00:57:33,970 plus years in the future and the word 1483 00:57:37,589 --> 00:57:35,470 deorbiting the space station what's the 1484 00:57:40,349 --> 00:57:37,599 headline what is the legacy of this 1485 00:57:41,970 --> 00:57:40,359 orbiting laboratory is it just one sound 1486 00:57:46,370 --> 00:57:41,980 bite that you think would kind of sum it 1487 00:57:51,870 --> 00:57:49,500 this signals the ending of the dawn of 1488 00:57:54,030 --> 00:57:51,880 the next Industrial Revolution in space 1489 00:57:56,460 --> 00:57:54,040 I really do believe that we're going to 1490 00:58:00,329 --> 00:57:56,470 see an industrial revolution this 1491 00:58:04,140 --> 00:58:00,339 platform is a classic disruptive 1492 00:58:06,599 --> 00:58:04,150 technology it changes benchtop biology 1493 00:58:09,540 --> 00:58:06,609 chemistry and physics if we have the 1494 00:58:11,310 --> 00:58:09,550 wisdom to use it right and although 1495 00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:11,320 we've come close to letting it slip 1496 00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:13,810 through our fingers many times over the 1497 00:58:19,890 --> 00:58:16,000 past 20 years I do think we're destined 1498 00:58:22,740 --> 00:58:19,900 to succeed with it ultimately you'll 1499 00:58:25,550 --> 00:58:22,750 agree with that assessment I think the 1500 00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:25,560 headline of space station extended I 1501 00:58:30,329 --> 00:58:27,730 know it's hard to think about it going 1502 00:58:32,460 --> 00:58:30,339 away all right think that's a pretty 1503 00:58:34,260 --> 00:58:32,470 much all the time we have today thank 1504 00:58:35,970 --> 00:58:34,270 you for joining us this program the 10th 1505 00:58:39,540 --> 00:58:35,980 anniversary once again I will officially 1506 00:58:41,220 --> 00:58:39,550 be on no vember second 2010 we have a 1507 00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:41,230 space shuttle launch coming up scheduled